8 ms·

Ask HN: Should it be legal to switch privacy policies after purchase?

Recently found that my LG Dryer & Washer are uploading/downloading 1GB of data per day. I looked into it after the LGThinQApp's privacy policy changed to gather information like personal information like DOB, gender, voice recordings, profile photos, network activity: "such as URL, ad block info, redirect URL, bookmark history etc.. Their privacy policy looks like it was meant for instagram.. This wasn't the case at all before when I purchased the product. The nice feature was that I could preload my clothes and trigger them to wash/dry before I'm about to get home. That's all I expected from this. I even called support and asked them to deactivate my account but they said this can only be done through the app. And I can't use the app unless I accept the new terms and services. edit: added the privacy policy link here https://us.m.lgaccount.com/spx/customer/terms_detail?country=US&language=en-US&terms_type=A_ITG_PRV

insaneisnotfree 5y ago
I think it should not be allowed to change after purchase because it is open for any changes and once you don't accept you will not be able to use the product. Forcing you to accept any change
happynacho 5y ago
...and this is a perfect example of why I don't buy anything "smart" besides my phone.
- notrealpersonq 5y ago
  I learned my lesson. It's a shame cause actual smart devices can be useful if they weren't so exploitive/deceptive.
dvdhnt 5y ago
Wow. I do not believe changes to terms after purchase should be allowed unless required by law. We need a lemon-like law for consumer electronics. Also, I believe it is important to not buy connected devices and appliances that are not entertainment purposes only. I’d rather pay $200 extra for a dumb tv that will last be 10 years and guaranteed to not start showing me ads in the menu screen someday.
- notrealpersonq 5y ago
  I really doubt that they're NOT already gathering data as if I accepted the policy. The guy I called said I'm the only person to complain about this. So I don't expect much to change. Yeah I'm not sure what the solution is. Maybe, I'm naive but I never expected this. I know better now. Regarding the smart t thing, I 100% agree, my vizio smart tv started getting ads on startup that I need to manually exit out of.
  - NullPrefix 5y ago
    >The guy I called said I'm the only person to complain about this. You do understand that this is a standard corporate gaslight?
    - notrealpersonq 5y ago
      Probably is, but most of my friends who aren't in tech told me I'm too "extra/petty" for calling.
- jen20 5y ago
  I’m in the market for a TV currently, and have found (in the US) that it doesn’t matter how much extra I’d be willing to pay for a dumb TV, there just aren’t any beyond super low-end ones. Any pointers to some would be much appreciated!
  - neltnerb 5y ago
    I got a TV that wishes it were smart. I just refused to accept the ToS upon turning it on, never connected it to the wifi, and use an HDMI cable instead. To this day if I accidentally click the wrong input button it asks me to accept the ToS. But since I haven't and won't accept them at least that's something. Though I think it should be extremely illegal to change the terms of service for an appliance. Software maybe, a service maybe, but not a washing machine or TV! What are you supposed to do if you disagree, try to return it 3 years after purchase? Will the manufacturer pay for you to spend your time packing it up to send back to them for a full refund (of purchase price)? Of course not. The warranty and return periods are up, you have no choices.
belval 5y ago
I think we are at a point where legislation will be needed and there should be a clear list of what kind of data will be collected by the device throughout this lifespan akin to nutrition facts for food. That list should not be possible to alter at all (because otherwise they would lock the app lest you approve the new requirements). Something like: This device will share: - Age - Gender - Voice commands - Wifi name - Location If a manufacturer wants more data they have to change the tag at the store and only the newer device will have the additional data collection. If the manufacturer pushes an update to get more data on users that have the older tag they get a $X fine per affected user, where X is ideally a real cost-prohibiting amount like 25-50% of the price of the device. Is there any reason why we can't have something like that?
- stackbutterflow 5y ago
  Technology moves faster than law. I agree that we need to do something about it. It's getting ridiculous.
  - belval 5y ago
    I mean corporation are just optimizing to make money which (at least to me) is not an issue, but we must set rules to make sure that this gross overreach stops otherwise we'll have mics in every room and any shred of privacy that might've remained will be gone.
  - gnulinux 5y ago
    It's way past the point it's ridiculous. It's starting to get dangerous, and if we don't take action now, this is going to be a systemic problem, not unlike ethnic/racial biases in justice systems throughout the world.
- MiddleEndian 5y ago
  I don't think it should just be a fine. If I sold you a couch and then broke into your house and spied on you, I'd face some sort of criminal charge, even if I emailed you a fifty page document with a "privacy policy" first. So why not the people responsible for this?
calvinmorrison 5y ago
My bigger thing is: will my hardware stop working if i dont agree to the latest changes?
kodah 5y ago
1GB of data per day? That's incredible. Have you tried to inspect the data? I'm curious to know what a washer and dryer could possibly send home per day to total that. If what you're saying is true, it smells like you're getting spied on.
- notrealpersonq 5y ago
  It definitely is 1GB per day. Any insight/links on how I can do that? I'll admit I have no idea where to begin when it comes to this.
  - tfsh 5y ago
    You could use Wireshark[1] which is a pretty powerful network packet sniffing application. If you capture using monitor mode, you'll likely see a bunch of 802.11 requests - take a look at [2]. 1: https://wireshark.org https://wireshark.org 2: https://wiki.wireshark.org/HowToDecrypt802.11 https://wiki.wireshark.org/HowToDecrypt802.11
    - notrealpersonq 5y ago
      Thank you, I'll look into it today.
  - kodah 5y ago
    Send an email to kodah@pull.dev and I'll see if I can help.
  - auxym 5y ago
    In Canada that would be outrageous. Many lower cost internet plans here are limited to 30-50gb per month. If my washer started using 1 gb per day without notice, and I received a bill for extra data, I woukd be pissed. I do own an LG washer, but thabkfully a lower end model without internet connectivity.
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  It will likely be encrypted. If they are lucky, then the vendor won't validate certs and you could MITM with a proxy. Super simple with Charles or Squid, but this assumes the device doesn't validate certs. Some IoT don't.
foxyv 5y ago
I don't regret sticking to dumb appliances. I hate Smart TVs with a passion, but they are all you can get nowadays. But I can just throw the TV out the window if it stops working when I unplug it and continue living just fine. Not so much with my washer, dryer, stove, car and fridge/freezer. I do not look forward to the day you CAN'T buy a non-smart appliance like a fridge or water heater.
- nerbert 5y ago
  People here regularly recommend a brand of dumb tv that is very reasonable in terms of image quality.
  - foxyv 5y ago
    Thank you, I'll keep an eye out!
  - domador 5y ago
    Would you mind mentioning the name of that brand? I'm currently looking for a TV.
    - kingaillas 5y ago
      It might be Sceptre (https://www.sceptre.com/ https://www.sceptre.com/). They do make smart TV's (their Android TV line) but their other lines are basically panels.
    - thatguy0900 5y ago
      Sceptre tvs are recommended alot, I have one of their moniters personally,it's really good
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- 41209 5y ago
  You can also just not connect it to the internet.
chrisseaton 5y ago
1GB of data does not pass a reality check for me. What on Earth can they be collecting about your washing and drying that is so much data? Can you tell us what it comprises?
- squeaky-clean 5y ago
  For real, does the device have a camera or microphone? I don't know what else could be using that much data. A quick Google seems to show they don't have built in voice control. That's just a huge amount of data if it's not sending some sort of media back home. Could always be poor programming for logging or something, but that wouldn't be my first suspect.
- detaro 5y ago
  known thing, see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26746982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26746982. Not sure if there ever was a clear answer what exactly is going on though.
jhart99 5y ago
If you live in California, use the CCPA to figure out what they have on you and then submit a deletion request.
- notrealpersonq 5y ago
  Not in CA. I did ask for the data and for my account to be deactivated. Haven't received an email from them yet.
lbriner 5y ago
Not sure about the US but in Europe and UK, GDPR would not permit them to collect anything that is not strictly needed without explicit consent. The Data Minimisation principle says you should only collect what you need. They can soft-opt you in to certain things if you have a business relationship (news letter) but this should be opt-outable, I think even at purchase time. It would also not permit the extension of data collection without consent (or another acceptable basis, but that would be unlikely). In the case of a service online, I guess you could potentially say if you don't like it, don't use the service but with hardware, I don't think this would fly.
terminalcommand 5y ago
I think the real issue here is not whether it should be legal to switch privacy policy after purchase. LG shouldn't be allowed to collect more info than it requires. It seems absurd to me that a washer-dryer needs to access bookmark history etc. to function. I would contact my local data protection authority and alert them of this practice. I guess LG would get in some trouble :). My initial instinct is that this collecting this info from a washer-dryer is wildly illegal.
- mongol 5y ago
  Yes this is a clear GDPR violation. But depends on which jurisdiction, of course
franciscop 5y ago
They are not legal in Spain, and probably neither in most of the civilized world (YMMV!). Over here a contract change needs to be approved by both parties at the time and with the specifics of the change, so a blanket "we might change this at any time" prior to it would also not be valid. I'm pretty sure (again in Spain) you could sue them and win, but you'd have to carry the cost of suing them AND the benefit would probably be small so not many individuals do. Some nice consumer defense groups do sue these companies and win again and again, which is amazing IMHO. Specially with the last ~10 years new data protection laws these shady practices are more and more illegal. > And I can't use the app unless I accept the new terms and services. For example Whatsapp keeps asking me to accept the new terms and I keep closing the popup, and still can use the app. We'll see how things end up, but for now they do not "force you" to accept them (though I'd say asking for it N times/day everyday might be considered harassment).
- cassianoleal 5y ago
  That's what I did for a while. Until I had to take my phone in for repairs and I wiped it beforehand (because I always wipe my devices before handing them in). Upon restoring backup, I couldn't get past the "accept terms" screen so I was effectively locked out of my WhatsApp account. Begrudgingly, I accepted them but gave no permissions (contacts, camera, mic, etc) and immediately requested deletion of my account. Definitely not ideal as they had some of that information on their servers already.
nonameiguess 5y ago
I don't think it should be legal, but Congress unfortunately doesn't give me a whole lot of say in what becomes law. Your best bet is probably to just not use the app from now on. Go ahead and accept the new terms, then disenroll in however you need to. I have an LG dryer/washer pair, but never downloaded the app, didn't register the equipment, and it's not on my network but still works fine. You can't remotely trigger a wash, but you can set a delayed start from the onboard control panel, and as long as you're reasonably accurate in your prediction of when you'll be coming home, it'll have the same effect as what you're doing with a remote trigger.
- notrealpersonq 5y ago
  Thanks for the suggestion. I think the only thing would get people to act is to say Russians/Chinese are spying on people with microwaves/tvs.. Otherwise media won't report on this.
marcodiego 5y ago
Yes. Serious: connected devices should be legally forced to use owner-controllable open protocols. I see no other way to guarantee that the costumer can't be abused.
bluGill 5y ago
There are just enough edge cases that they need that ability. Laws change, and they need to update to account for that. Sometimes the previous policy was wrong and they can't work at all without adding something that should have been there all along. Of course most of the time changes are not needed at all to get the job done, just to violate your privacy.
- notrealpersonq 5y ago
  I understand if the previous policy is wrong by a few words/legalese terms. But in this case they either oh we forgot to include that we're mining all this data or they recently found out they can and started doing so. If a device was bought with privacy as a feature and then it flips 180 and you're locked out of using it with no recourse for returning it. To me it that seems as a clear violation of a consumer's rights.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    I agree. That is the downside. There are just enough reasonable cases where a privacy policy must be change that it cannot be banned. That creates loopholes large enough to drive whole planets through.
giantg2 5y ago
Most policies/contracts for B2C products (and employer to employee) are next to worthless for the consumer. Most have some sort of language saying they alone make the rules and they can change them at any time with or without notice. As a consumer and employee, I feel it would be great to get rid of that language. I doubt congress will do anything about it since that would require a massive change to contract law.
neltnerb 5y ago
Thanks for the warning, I just bought a pair of these last week. I had planned to never in a million years pair it with a phone or connect it to wireless, and this just makes it obvious what the repercussions would have been. Paying ~$2k for appliances that then try to extract extra money out of you with targeted advertising (for what! you already bought the equipment!). Bookmark history! Dear god.
- notrealpersonq 5y ago
  Glad to have been a guinea pig haha!
LightG 5y ago
No. I was recently incredibly annoyed with my TV "threatening" me that if I didn't accept the regular new privacy policies, I would lose functionality (of course, with the 50 pages of on-screen legalese that you're supposed to read before accepting). LG ... I'm looking at you and your mafia tactics. Good topic to bring up, it's getting ridiculous. Signed: A previous LG fan
noasaservice 5y ago
So... Why did you give permission for a washer/dryer to talk online? And, since you did the bad thing, have you revoked/changed passwords/locked this piece of shit hardware out from the internet? Rather than begging HN or yelling at a cloud (LG), what have YOU done to remedy this on your side?
- notrealpersonq 5y ago
  I mentioned that being able to trigger the wash/dryer remotely was about the only thing I found useful. Yes all of that's already been done immediately after finding this out. I'm new to HN, so I apologize in advance if this isn't the right place to post this.
LinuxBender 5y ago
I don't have the answer to your legal question, but if your router supports it, you might consider putting rate limits on the machines IP so they are slowed to a crawl. Maybe 10kb/s. Enough to make it think it is working but not enough to upload all the things. This assumes your appliance will still work as designed when their spooler/buffer is full. Or another trick is to drop any packets above 600 bytes. Most API calls will work but data transfers won't unless their device is clever.
zerof1l 5y ago
I think that the solution moving on forward would be purchasing dumb devices and doing automation yourself and connecting them to your own smart home network.

insaneisnotfree 5y ago

I think it should not be allowed to change after purchase because it is open for any changes and once you don't accept you will not be able to use the product. Forcing you to accept any change

happynacho 5y ago

...and this is a perfect example of why I don't buy anything "smart" besides my phone.

notrealpersonq 5y ago
I learned my lesson. It's a shame cause actual smart devices can be useful if they weren't so exploitive/deceptive.

dvdhnt 5y ago

Wow. I do not believe changes to terms after purchase should be allowed unless required by law. We need a lemon-like law for consumer electronics. Also, I believe it is important to not buy connected devices and appliances that are not entertainment purposes only. I’d rather pay $200 extra for a dumb tv that will last be 10 years and guaranteed to not start showing me ads in the menu screen someday.

notrealpersonq 5y ago
I really doubt that they're NOT already gathering data as if I accepted the policy. The guy I called said I'm the only person to complain about this. So I don't expect much to change. Yeah I'm not sure what the solution is. Maybe, I'm naive but I never expected this. I know better now. Regarding the smart t thing, I 100% agree, my vizio smart tv started getting ads on startup that I need to manually exit out of.
- NullPrefix 5y ago
  >The guy I called said I'm the only person to complain about this. You do understand that this is a standard corporate gaslight?
  - notrealpersonq 5y ago
    Probably is, but most of my friends who aren't in tech told me I'm too "extra/petty" for calling.
jen20 5y ago
I’m in the market for a TV currently, and have found (in the US) that it doesn’t matter how much extra I’d be willing to pay for a dumb TV, there just aren’t any beyond super low-end ones. Any pointers to some would be much appreciated!
- neltnerb 5y ago
  I got a TV that wishes it were smart. I just refused to accept the ToS upon turning it on, never connected it to the wifi, and use an HDMI cable instead. To this day if I accidentally click the wrong input button it asks me to accept the ToS. But since I haven't and won't accept them at least that's something. Though I think it should be extremely illegal to change the terms of service for an appliance. Software maybe, a service maybe, but not a washing machine or TV! What are you supposed to do if you disagree, try to return it 3 years after purchase? Will the manufacturer pay for you to spend your time packing it up to send back to them for a full refund (of purchase price)? Of course not. The warranty and return periods are up, you have no choices.

belval 5y ago

I think we are at a point where legislation will be needed and there should be a clear list of what kind of data will be collected by the device throughout this lifespan akin to nutrition facts for food. That list should not be possible to alter at all (because otherwise they would lock the app lest you approve the new requirements). Something like: This device will share: - Age - Gender - Voice commands - Wifi name - Location If a manufacturer wants more data they have to change the tag at the store and only the newer device will have the additional data collection. If the manufacturer pushes an update to get more data on users that have the older tag they get a $X fine per affected user, where X is ideally a real cost-prohibiting amount like 25-50% of the price of the device. Is there any reason why we can't have something like that?

stackbutterflow 5y ago
Technology moves faster than law. I agree that we need to do something about it. It's getting ridiculous.
- belval 5y ago
  I mean corporation are just optimizing to make money which (at least to me) is not an issue, but we must set rules to make sure that this gross overreach stops otherwise we'll have mics in every room and any shred of privacy that might've remained will be gone.
- gnulinux 5y ago
  It's way past the point it's ridiculous. It's starting to get dangerous, and if we don't take action now, this is going to be a systemic problem, not unlike ethnic/racial biases in justice systems throughout the world.
MiddleEndian 5y ago
I don't think it should just be a fine. If I sold you a couch and then broke into your house and spied on you, I'd face some sort of criminal charge, even if I emailed you a fifty page document with a "privacy policy" first. So why not the people responsible for this?

calvinmorrison 5y ago

My bigger thing is: will my hardware stop working if i dont agree to the latest changes?

kodah 5y ago

1GB of data per day? That's incredible. Have you tried to inspect the data? I'm curious to know what a washer and dryer could possibly send home per day to total that. If what you're saying is true, it smells like you're getting spied on.

notrealpersonq 5y ago
It definitely is 1GB per day. Any insight/links on how I can do that? I'll admit I have no idea where to begin when it comes to this.
- tfsh 5y ago
  You could use Wireshark[1] which is a pretty powerful network packet sniffing application. If you capture using monitor mode, you'll likely see a bunch of 802.11 requests - take a look at [2]. 1: https://wireshark.org https://wireshark.org 2: https://wiki.wireshark.org/HowToDecrypt802.11 https://wiki.wireshark.org/HowToDecrypt802.11
  - notrealpersonq 5y ago
    Thank you, I'll look into it today.
- kodah 5y ago
  Send an email to kodah@pull.dev and I'll see if I can help.
- auxym 5y ago
  In Canada that would be outrageous. Many lower cost internet plans here are limited to 30-50gb per month. If my washer started using 1 gb per day without notice, and I received a bill for extra data, I woukd be pissed. I do own an LG washer, but thabkfully a lower end model without internet connectivity.
LinuxBender 5y ago
It will likely be encrypted. If they are lucky, then the vendor won't validate certs and you could MITM with a proxy. Super simple with Charles or Squid, but this assumes the device doesn't validate certs. Some IoT don't.

foxyv 5y ago

I don't regret sticking to dumb appliances. I hate Smart TVs with a passion, but they are all you can get nowadays. But I can just throw the TV out the window if it stops working when I unplug it and continue living just fine. Not so much with my washer, dryer, stove, car and fridge/freezer. I do not look forward to the day you CAN'T buy a non-smart appliance like a fridge or water heater.

nerbert 5y ago
People here regularly recommend a brand of dumb tv that is very reasonable in terms of image quality.
- foxyv 5y ago
  Thank you, I'll keep an eye out!
- domador 5y ago
  Would you mind mentioning the name of that brand? I'm currently looking for a TV.
  - kingaillas 5y ago
    It might be Sceptre (https://www.sceptre.com/ https://www.sceptre.com/). They do make smart TV's (their Android TV line) but their other lines are basically panels.
  - thatguy0900 5y ago
    Sceptre tvs are recommended alot, I have one of their moniters personally,it's really good
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
41209 5y ago
You can also just not connect it to the internet.

chrisseaton 5y ago

1GB of data does not pass a reality check for me. What on Earth can they be collecting about your washing and drying that is so much data? Can you tell us what it comprises?

squeaky-clean 5y ago
For real, does the device have a camera or microphone? I don't know what else could be using that much data. A quick Google seems to show they don't have built in voice control. That's just a huge amount of data if it's not sending some sort of media back home. Could always be poor programming for logging or something, but that wouldn't be my first suspect.
detaro 5y ago
known thing, see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26746982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26746982. Not sure if there ever was a clear answer what exactly is going on though.

jhart99 5y ago

If you live in California, use the CCPA to figure out what they have on you and then submit a deletion request.

notrealpersonq 5y ago
Not in CA. I did ask for the data and for my account to be deactivated. Haven't received an email from them yet.

lbriner 5y ago

Not sure about the US but in Europe and UK, GDPR would not permit them to collect anything that is not strictly needed without explicit consent. The Data Minimisation principle says you should only collect what you need. They can soft-opt you in to certain things if you have a business relationship (news letter) but this should be opt-outable, I think even at purchase time. It would also not permit the extension of data collection without consent (or another acceptable basis, but that would be unlikely). In the case of a service online, I guess you could potentially say if you don't like it, don't use the service but with hardware, I don't think this would fly.

terminalcommand 5y ago

I think the real issue here is not whether it should be legal to switch privacy policy after purchase. LG shouldn't be allowed to collect more info than it requires. It seems absurd to me that a washer-dryer needs to access bookmark history etc. to function. I would contact my local data protection authority and alert them of this practice. I guess LG would get in some trouble :). My initial instinct is that this collecting this info from a washer-dryer is wildly illegal.

mongol 5y ago
Yes this is a clear GDPR violation. But depends on which jurisdiction, of course

franciscop 5y ago

They are not legal in Spain, and probably neither in most of the civilized world (YMMV!). Over here a contract change needs to be approved by both parties at the time and with the specifics of the change, so a blanket "we might change this at any time" prior to it would also not be valid. I'm pretty sure (again in Spain) you could sue them and win, but you'd have to carry the cost of suing them AND the benefit would probably be small so not many individuals do. Some nice consumer defense groups do sue these companies and win again and again, which is amazing IMHO. Specially with the last ~10 years new data protection laws these shady practices are more and more illegal. > And I can't use the app unless I accept the new terms and services. For example Whatsapp keeps asking me to accept the new terms and I keep closing the popup, and still can use the app. We'll see how things end up, but for now they do not "force you" to accept them (though I'd say asking for it N times/day everyday might be considered harassment).

cassianoleal 5y ago
That's what I did for a while. Until I had to take my phone in for repairs and I wiped it beforehand (because I always wipe my devices before handing them in). Upon restoring backup, I couldn't get past the "accept terms" screen so I was effectively locked out of my WhatsApp account. Begrudgingly, I accepted them but gave no permissions (contacts, camera, mic, etc) and immediately requested deletion of my account. Definitely not ideal as they had some of that information on their servers already.

nonameiguess 5y ago

I don't think it should be legal, but Congress unfortunately doesn't give me a whole lot of say in what becomes law. Your best bet is probably to just not use the app from now on. Go ahead and accept the new terms, then disenroll in however you need to. I have an LG dryer/washer pair, but never downloaded the app, didn't register the equipment, and it's not on my network but still works fine. You can't remotely trigger a wash, but you can set a delayed start from the onboard control panel, and as long as you're reasonably accurate in your prediction of when you'll be coming home, it'll have the same effect as what you're doing with a remote trigger.

notrealpersonq 5y ago
Thanks for the suggestion. I think the only thing would get people to act is to say Russians/Chinese are spying on people with microwaves/tvs.. Otherwise media won't report on this.

marcodiego 5y ago

Yes. Serious: connected devices should be legally forced to use owner-controllable open protocols. I see no other way to guarantee that the costumer can't be abused.

bluGill 5y ago

There are just enough edge cases that they need that ability. Laws change, and they need to update to account for that. Sometimes the previous policy was wrong and they can't work at all without adding something that should have been there all along. Of course most of the time changes are not needed at all to get the job done, just to violate your privacy.

notrealpersonq 5y ago
I understand if the previous policy is wrong by a few words/legalese terms. But in this case they either oh we forgot to include that we're mining all this data or they recently found out they can and started doing so. If a device was bought with privacy as a feature and then it flips 180 and you're locked out of using it with no recourse for returning it. To me it that seems as a clear violation of a consumer's rights.
- bluGill 5y ago
  I agree. That is the downside. There are just enough reasonable cases where a privacy policy must be change that it cannot be banned. That creates loopholes large enough to drive whole planets through.

giantg2 5y ago

Most policies/contracts for B2C products (and employer to employee) are next to worthless for the consumer. Most have some sort of language saying they alone make the rules and they can change them at any time with or without notice. As a consumer and employee, I feel it would be great to get rid of that language. I doubt congress will do anything about it since that would require a massive change to contract law.

neltnerb 5y ago

Thanks for the warning, I just bought a pair of these last week. I had planned to never in a million years pair it with a phone or connect it to wireless, and this just makes it obvious what the repercussions would have been. Paying ~$2k for appliances that then try to extract extra money out of you with targeted advertising (for what! you already bought the equipment!). Bookmark history! Dear god.

notrealpersonq 5y ago
Glad to have been a guinea pig haha!

LightG 5y ago

No. I was recently incredibly annoyed with my TV "threatening" me that if I didn't accept the regular new privacy policies, I would lose functionality (of course, with the 50 pages of on-screen legalese that you're supposed to read before accepting). LG ... I'm looking at you and your mafia tactics. Good topic to bring up, it's getting ridiculous. Signed: A previous LG fan

noasaservice 5y ago

So... Why did you give permission for a washer/dryer to talk online? And, since you did the bad thing, have you revoked/changed passwords/locked this piece of shit hardware out from the internet? Rather than begging HN or yelling at a cloud (LG), what have YOU done to remedy this on your side?

notrealpersonq 5y ago
I mentioned that being able to trigger the wash/dryer remotely was about the only thing I found useful. Yes all of that's already been done immediately after finding this out. I'm new to HN, so I apologize in advance if this isn't the right place to post this.

LinuxBender 5y ago

I don't have the answer to your legal question, but if your router supports it, you might consider putting rate limits on the machines IP so they are slowed to a crawl. Maybe 10kb/s. Enough to make it think it is working but not enough to upload all the things. This assumes your appliance will still work as designed when their spooler/buffer is full. Or another trick is to drop any packets above 600 bytes. Most API calls will work but data transfers won't unless their device is clever.

zerof1l 5y ago

I think that the solution moving on forward would be purchasing dumb devices and doing automation yourself and connecting them to your own smart home network.