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If Uber was tripling prices when the battery level fell below 20% (like this Tweet) then more people would have noticed it by now. I think this is an obvious c

If Uber was tripling prices when the battery level fell below 20% (like this Tweet) then more people would have noticed it by now. I think this is an obvious case of someone attributing market-rate fluctuations to the only metric they can personally see with their own eyes: Their battery level. They can’t see Uber’s network of available drivers and other factors that influence the rate, so they overweight the only data point they can see. This is similar to the phenomenon where people have a verbal discussion about a topic and then coincidentally see an ad for that product in an app later. When we see 10s or 100s of ads per day, it’s inevitable they we’ll randomly see an ad for something we’ve been discussing. Yet some people see these coincidences and wrongly conclude that their phones are listening to their every word, using AI to parse it out (without draining their battery), and then sending those keywords to an ad server for targeting. It has been debunked many times over but it’s still a commonly held belief that all of your phone apps are listening to your conversations. It can be difficult to convince some people that coincidences are really just coincidences. Especially in this era where Big Tech has an incredible evil reputation in the journalism and media we consume.

FDSGSG 5y ago
This is similar to the incredibly common meme that Instagram and other social media apps are secretly using the microphone to spy on you for advertising purposes. Most people are just stupid, nothing new here.
- hkt 5y ago
  And yet after a whatsapp call I'll be advertised things I'd never mentioned by any other medium. It is striking.
  - vntok 5y ago
    Nah. You think that you have never mentioned or searched those things, but in reality you're just starting to recognize them as soon as your call ends because your brain has been primed to pay more attention. This is the same phenomenon as driving with other people and suddenly asking out loud "Hey let's find such or such type of car". Whatever the make (within reason), you'll probably start finding out a bunch of them. That's because you start paying attention, of course, not because there's suddenly a surge of people driving them at the exact time you're looking for them.
  - puszczyk 5y ago
    WhatsApp call are end-to-end encrypted. Do you think they aren’t? (All, only yours?)
  - natch 5y ago
    There are other ways to accomplish that without a microphone. Hint: there was another party on your call other than yourself, and their behavior (on the web for example, where you may be linked as friends on the same social media sites) can provide signals you are unaware of, that suggest things about their friends including you.
  - FDSGSG 5y ago
    This should be easy to prove by reverse engineering the WhatsApp application. If someone could come up with proof of this, they'd probably be set for life in one way or another. Perhaps they could monetize the information by collaborating with short-sellers, or simply kickstart a career using the massive media attention.
- alexanderdmitri 5y ago
  I don't think it's that people are stupid. Blindly trusting these apps to not take advantage or mishandle their access to personal data is also naive. It's possible to do business without scanning your customer's faces, tracing their contacts, selling details of their transactions to aggregators, etc ... where does the line get drawn? And that doesn't even address data that is "accidentally" collected.
  - natch 5y ago
    People may not be stupid but they are extremely gullible and they also love hating on some perceived bad guy or corporation.
thrav 5y ago
I was in this exact situation last weekend. 3% battery, lost a couple drivers to cancellation (going Marina to Marin), and thought I was done for. Would’ve paid any price, but what they were quoting me felt incredibly reasonable the entire time, and around bar closing time on a Friday, no less. ($60 to San Anselmo)
- almost_usual 5y ago
  Almost sounds like you’re trying to get stranded in the city. Out at bar close and needing a ride to San Anselmo? Good luck next time.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  I' in SA too.
lupire 5y ago
Low battery is correlated to lateness of time of day, which is correlated to barhoppers needing cabs and driver unavailability.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- yborg 5y ago
  Time of day is also correlated with time of day, why would Uber use the battery level?
  - Kranar 5y ago
    I think you're agreeing with OP, namely that it's not battery usage that is causing the price hike, it's time of day that's causing it and the battery life is correlated.
    - dmix 5y ago
      I've heard so many people say they think iPhones are 'listening to them talk' because they'll talk about some product then go on Instagram/Google and see an advertisement for that type of product. Obviously they were just targeted really well and missed some other data connection. Humans are good at pattern matching to notice trends but non-technical people always tend to blame something higher up in the stack, like the device in their hand. Or jump to something more malicious by the all-knowing powerful big tech companies.
  - gmadsen 5y ago
    they don't. I think you are just misunderstanding the comment. The poster was saying people might assume its related to battery level since it is correlated to time of day, which does have an effect on prices. He was making a comment about wrongly thinking causation from the situation
- achow 5y ago
  The screenshot indicates it was around 5PM, and on Mon (based upon the tweet). Surge price for Mon office commute, triple than normal?
rozab 5y ago
A thread from 3 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28204948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28204948
- gnabgib 5y ago
  A thread about Dungeon crawl eh? Maybe you meant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28217897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28217897
  - rozab 5y ago
    No, that's what I meant to link. Melee damage was accidentally doubled for 2 whole weeks and not and nobody noticed. Those players play extremely close attention to stats and such. The post goes on to talk about how and why many changes and behaviours can go unnoticed, and I think the whole episode disproves the parent posters initial point.
kodah 5y ago
My theory is different from yours but only slightly. Companies have no use for recording your voice. 1. Audio streaming is expensive and requires lots of storage, even if ephemeral, to be done widely. 2. Natural Language Parsing and transcription is fraught with errors. Go read your visual voicemail sometime. This, to me, is enough to close the book on this theory. What is entirely possible is this: Two individuals have a discussion. This discussion results is one of the individuals searching for a product in a store or online (some stores, like a famous hardware store) can detect proximity to certain items. If they can correlate interest based on a linked (or brokered) profile then they have ascertained that person A is engaged with said item. Targeted advertising is such that it is possible for you to be shown items based on your own interests, but it's also possible you're part of a larger network. Again, all a hypothesis and one hard to prove at that.
lloydatkinson 5y ago
If they did it even with a 0.001% chance of it happening that would still be enough to earn them extra profit. They aren't going to be stupid enough to do it every single time.

FDSGSG 5y ago

This is similar to the incredibly common meme that Instagram and other social media apps are secretly using the microphone to spy on you for advertising purposes. Most people are just stupid, nothing new here.

hkt 5y ago
And yet after a whatsapp call I'll be advertised things I'd never mentioned by any other medium. It is striking.
- vntok 5y ago
  Nah. You think that you have never mentioned or searched those things, but in reality you're just starting to recognize them as soon as your call ends because your brain has been primed to pay more attention. This is the same phenomenon as driving with other people and suddenly asking out loud "Hey let's find such or such type of car". Whatever the make (within reason), you'll probably start finding out a bunch of them. That's because you start paying attention, of course, not because there's suddenly a surge of people driving them at the exact time you're looking for them.
- puszczyk 5y ago
  WhatsApp call are end-to-end encrypted. Do you think they aren’t? (All, only yours?)
- natch 5y ago
  There are other ways to accomplish that without a microphone. Hint: there was another party on your call other than yourself, and their behavior (on the web for example, where you may be linked as friends on the same social media sites) can provide signals you are unaware of, that suggest things about their friends including you.
- FDSGSG 5y ago
  This should be easy to prove by reverse engineering the WhatsApp application. If someone could come up with proof of this, they'd probably be set for life in one way or another. Perhaps they could monetize the information by collaborating with short-sellers, or simply kickstart a career using the massive media attention.
alexanderdmitri 5y ago
I don't think it's that people are stupid. Blindly trusting these apps to not take advantage or mishandle their access to personal data is also naive. It's possible to do business without scanning your customer's faces, tracing their contacts, selling details of their transactions to aggregators, etc ... where does the line get drawn? And that doesn't even address data that is "accidentally" collected.
- natch 5y ago
  People may not be stupid but they are extremely gullible and they also love hating on some perceived bad guy or corporation.

thrav 5y ago

I was in this exact situation last weekend. 3% battery, lost a couple drivers to cancellation (going Marina to Marin), and thought I was done for. Would’ve paid any price, but what they were quoting me felt incredibly reasonable the entire time, and around bar closing time on a Friday, no less. ($60 to San Anselmo)

almost_usual 5y ago
Almost sounds like you’re trying to get stranded in the city. Out at bar close and needing a ride to San Anselmo? Good luck next time.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
I' in SA too.

lupire 5y ago

Low battery is correlated to lateness of time of day, which is correlated to barhoppers needing cabs and driver unavailability.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
yborg 5y ago
Time of day is also correlated with time of day, why would Uber use the battery level?
- Kranar 5y ago
  I think you're agreeing with OP, namely that it's not battery usage that is causing the price hike, it's time of day that's causing it and the battery life is correlated.
  - dmix 5y ago
    I've heard so many people say they think iPhones are 'listening to them talk' because they'll talk about some product then go on Instagram/Google and see an advertisement for that type of product. Obviously they were just targeted really well and missed some other data connection. Humans are good at pattern matching to notice trends but non-technical people always tend to blame something higher up in the stack, like the device in their hand. Or jump to something more malicious by the all-knowing powerful big tech companies.
- gmadsen 5y ago
  they don't. I think you are just misunderstanding the comment. The poster was saying people might assume its related to battery level since it is correlated to time of day, which does have an effect on prices. He was making a comment about wrongly thinking causation from the situation
achow 5y ago
The screenshot indicates it was around 5PM, and on Mon (based upon the tweet). Surge price for Mon office commute, triple than normal?

rozab 5y ago

A thread from 3 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28204948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28204948

gnabgib 5y ago
A thread about Dungeon crawl eh? Maybe you meant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28217897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28217897
- rozab 5y ago
  No, that's what I meant to link. Melee damage was accidentally doubled for 2 whole weeks and not and nobody noticed. Those players play extremely close attention to stats and such. The post goes on to talk about how and why many changes and behaviours can go unnoticed, and I think the whole episode disproves the parent posters initial point.

kodah 5y ago

My theory is different from yours but only slightly. Companies have no use for recording your voice. 1. Audio streaming is expensive and requires lots of storage, even if ephemeral, to be done widely. 2. Natural Language Parsing and transcription is fraught with errors. Go read your visual voicemail sometime. This, to me, is enough to close the book on this theory. What is entirely possible is this: Two individuals have a discussion. This discussion results is one of the individuals searching for a product in a store or online (some stores, like a famous hardware store) can detect proximity to certain items. If they can correlate interest based on a linked (or brokered) profile then they have ascertained that person A is engaged with said item. Targeted advertising is such that it is possible for you to be shown items based on your own interests, but it's also possible you're part of a larger network. Again, all a hypothesis and one hard to prove at that.

lloydatkinson 5y ago

If they did it even with a 0.001% chance of it happening that would still be enough to earn them extra profit. They aren't going to be stupid enough to do it every single time.