4 ms·

Is it worth continuing to push sex workers into illegality, thereby putting them in danger? Put another way, do we have a right to sacrifice one population to

Is it worth continuing to push sex workers into illegality, thereby putting them in danger? Put another way, do we have a right to sacrifice one population to protect another? Allow me to doubt it.

thendrill 5y ago
Problem is that sex work is a very wierd exempt from current social norms. We do not like meritocracy but we do agree that hot young women can make a lot of money just because they were born this way.
zozbot234 5y ago
> Is it worth continuing to push sex workers into illegality If that's the price to pay in order to rescue vulnerable people who are being exploited and trafficked, very much so. Sex work is a decadent luxury at best; human freedom and agency are worth so much more. > thereby putting them in danger? There's no proof that legitimate sex workers are being "put in danger". They might be de-facto forbidden from engaging in that line of work, but there's a solid rationale for such a policy; it might just be the best we can do given our broader circumstances.
- Jcowell 5y ago
  The question is, is criminal regulation better than legal regulation? Are sexually trafficked victims truly helped when this work is criminalized rather than heavily regulated ? To me it’s like how some states try to combat Teen pregnancy and abortion by teaching abstinence instead of proper health education and provide accessible resources.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    There's no known way at present to regulate sex work in a way that keeps traffickers from coercing their victims to work for their benefit. Many countries outside the U.S. have tried and failed to do this. Maybe you can make the case for a teeny tiny niche of specialty services, too specialized to ever appeal to the traffickers; but even if that was in fact viable it's extremely hard politically to argue for such a thing.
    - johnnyanmac 5y ago
      >There's no known way at present to regulate sex work in a way that keeps traffickers from coercing their victims to work for their benefit. Many countries outside the U.S. have tried and failed to do this yes, much like many other modern companies and how they abuse workers, or turn a blind eye to abuse. I'd rather be able to report my company to some labor board and get them sued than render my work illegal and have me arrested for snitching on myself.
- relax88 5y ago
  Companies can barely be expected to protect your personal data. Now imagine you’re a cam girl who has provided your drivers license picture to a website and now it has leaked and thousands of thirsty lonely men have your home address. This isn’t even a made up scenario, it has happened with multiple cam sites.
- subpixel 5y ago
  > Is it worth continuing to push sex workers into illegality I find this argument perfectly compelling with regard to 'traditional' definitions of sex work. Legalize and regulate prostitution, just like the Dutch. But I also have no problem with strict regulation of platforms for user-generated explicit content. The argument that Onlyfans performers constitute a group that needs protecting from regulation holds less water than the argument that kids need protection from exploitation. And I don't just mean trafficking - I consider a platform that attracts minors and enables them to monetize sexual images of themselves to be exploitative.
pcbro141 5y ago
Is it really the case that most OnlyFans girls would turn to more dangerous things like prostitution? It kinda feels like OnlyFans has somewhat normalized/popularized young women going from Instagram 'influencer' (sometimes starting underage unfortunately, HS kids use it) to pornstar, for young women who otherwise probably wouldn't have entered the world of porn if it weren't for the fact that the hot Instagram girl -> monetize IG popularity via OnlyFans porn pipeline hasn't become so normalized.
- dkdk8283 5y ago
  Think of it the other way around. Sex workers can finally go “legit” via OF and can stop fucking random people.
  - wruza 5y ago
    Most of them can’t do nearly as much as of when fucking people full time, and most of that part can’t even make a living on OF. It is unlikely “the other way around”, considering insights available out there.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    On the street, sex workers compete with the local availability and even the most expensive workers are limited by time alone. On the internet, the have (had?) to compete with the prettiest and best people in the business and these people can have far more customers. So I honestly doubt that there is much mobility between these two jobs.
    - dkdk8283 5y ago
      I have personal experience: the fan base starts with ex clients and there are all sorts of promotional techniques. A friend of mine did exactly that. She isn’t rich but she can pay her bills.
ImprobableTruth 5y ago
>do we have a right to sacrifice one population to protect another? You're doing that one way or the other. The question is merely which one should be protected and which sacrificed.
- relax88 5y ago
  I think it’s more about whether shutting down adult content on sites like OnlyFans actually does anything to reduce sex trafficking or abuse.
  - ImprobableTruth 5y ago
    We know this is the case because there are some documented cases. It's just a matter of whether this groups size and weight is worth sacrificing the other.

Is it worth continuing to push sex workers into illegality, thereby putting them in danger? Put another way, do we have a right to sacrifice one population to protect another? Allow me to doubt it.

thendrill 5y ago

Problem is that sex work is a very wierd exempt from current social norms. We do not like meritocracy but we do agree that hot young women can make a lot of money just because they were born this way.

zozbot234 5y ago

> Is it worth continuing to push sex workers into illegality If that's the price to pay in order to rescue vulnerable people who are being exploited and trafficked, very much so. Sex work is a decadent luxury at best; human freedom and agency are worth so much more. > thereby putting them in danger? There's no proof that legitimate sex workers are being "put in danger". They might be de-facto forbidden from engaging in that line of work, but there's a solid rationale for such a policy; it might just be the best we can do given our broader circumstances.

Jcowell 5y ago
The question is, is criminal regulation better than legal regulation? Are sexually trafficked victims truly helped when this work is criminalized rather than heavily regulated ? To me it’s like how some states try to combat Teen pregnancy and abortion by teaching abstinence instead of proper health education and provide accessible resources.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  There's no known way at present to regulate sex work in a way that keeps traffickers from coercing their victims to work for their benefit. Many countries outside the U.S. have tried and failed to do this. Maybe you can make the case for a teeny tiny niche of specialty services, too specialized to ever appeal to the traffickers; but even if that was in fact viable it's extremely hard politically to argue for such a thing.
  - johnnyanmac 5y ago
    >There's no known way at present to regulate sex work in a way that keeps traffickers from coercing their victims to work for their benefit. Many countries outside the U.S. have tried and failed to do this yes, much like many other modern companies and how they abuse workers, or turn a blind eye to abuse. I'd rather be able to report my company to some labor board and get them sued than render my work illegal and have me arrested for snitching on myself.
relax88 5y ago
Companies can barely be expected to protect your personal data. Now imagine you’re a cam girl who has provided your drivers license picture to a website and now it has leaked and thousands of thirsty lonely men have your home address. This isn’t even a made up scenario, it has happened with multiple cam sites.
subpixel 5y ago
> Is it worth continuing to push sex workers into illegality I find this argument perfectly compelling with regard to 'traditional' definitions of sex work. Legalize and regulate prostitution, just like the Dutch. But I also have no problem with strict regulation of platforms for user-generated explicit content. The argument that Onlyfans performers constitute a group that needs protecting from regulation holds less water than the argument that kids need protection from exploitation. And I don't just mean trafficking - I consider a platform that attracts minors and enables them to monetize sexual images of themselves to be exploitative.

pcbro141 5y ago

Is it really the case that most OnlyFans girls would turn to more dangerous things like prostitution? It kinda feels like OnlyFans has somewhat normalized/popularized young women going from Instagram 'influencer' (sometimes starting underage unfortunately, HS kids use it) to pornstar, for young women who otherwise probably wouldn't have entered the world of porn if it weren't for the fact that the hot Instagram girl -> monetize IG popularity via OnlyFans porn pipeline hasn't become so normalized.

dkdk8283 5y ago
Think of it the other way around. Sex workers can finally go “legit” via OF and can stop fucking random people.
- wruza 5y ago
  Most of them can’t do nearly as much as of when fucking people full time, and most of that part can’t even make a living on OF. It is unlikely “the other way around”, considering insights available out there.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Sebb767 5y ago
  On the street, sex workers compete with the local availability and even the most expensive workers are limited by time alone. On the internet, the have (had?) to compete with the prettiest and best people in the business and these people can have far more customers. So I honestly doubt that there is much mobility between these two jobs.
  - dkdk8283 5y ago
    I have personal experience: the fan base starts with ex clients and there are all sorts of promotional techniques. A friend of mine did exactly that. She isn’t rich but she can pay her bills.

ImprobableTruth 5y ago

>do we have a right to sacrifice one population to protect another? You're doing that one way or the other. The question is merely which one should be protected and which sacrificed.

relax88 5y ago
I think it’s more about whether shutting down adult content on sites like OnlyFans actually does anything to reduce sex trafficking or abuse.
- ImprobableTruth 5y ago
  We know this is the case because there are some documented cases. It's just a matter of whether this groups size and weight is worth sacrificing the other.