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There is nothing more evil in modern business than marketers. Between real life experience and MBA classes I have come to despise most everything involved in m

There is nothing more evil in modern business than marketers. Between real life experience and MBA classes I have come to despise most everything involved in modern marketing, especially in the technology space.

Alex3917 15y ago
Except for that virtually every single one of the biggest problems we face is a marketing problem, rather than an issue where we don't have the science or technology: global warming, education reform, prison reform, the national debt, healthcare, literacy, food production, biodiversity, etc. Marketing is probably the single most important career there is right now, and if there's any hope of humanity making it through the next thousand years then it'll almost certainly be due to improvements in our ability to market things rather than new technology.
- ewanmcteagle 15y ago
  For those examples are you saying that science or research is clear? I think it isn't for any of them.
- jberryman 15y ago
  > Except for that virtually every single one of the biggest problems we face is a marketing problem, rather than an issue where we don't have the science or technology. Interesting point, and I agree. > if there's any hope of humanity making it through the next thousand years then it'll almost certainly be due to improvements in our ability to market things rather than new technology. If by our ability you mean progressives/the left, then I agree. Surely marketing per se is at best a neutral force.
- dredmorbius 15y ago
  You're making the leap from "every big problem we face is a marketing problem" to "and the solution is to track users in minute and excruciating detail". I can accept that there are ideas which are critical to the survival of the human race and/or modern civilization, which require mass education, and utterly reject your conclusion.
- maukdaddy 15y ago
  But here's the problem - on a whole, no one is paying marketers to solve these problems. Marketers make their money by shilling for products that are the opposite of the issues you listed above. For example, a newly minted MBA in Marketing needs to pay back school loans. Who has the money to pay them? Who has the job that will bring the most prestige and future earnings? The local farm selling grass-fed beef and organic products or P&G selling highly processed foods that are destroying the environment? The marketer is going to take the P&G job and then spend their time and brainpower convincing people to buy even more processed crap.
  - jaredmck 15y ago
    Marketer is not a well-defined class. People who market may not identify as such- many don't even know they market. Marketing is just a word, a neat little box, it contains exactly and only what you want. While you have a lot of bile for marketers behind closed big corporate doors (and I agree they deserve much of this derision) the fact of the matter is, you always have a choice: stop buying their shit. It may take a lot of work to cut through all these layers of bullshit, sure, but ask yourself what it is about marketing which really makes you mad? Marketing, ads, or that you can't yet see through/around/past it enough to stop falling for exactly the traps marketers set?
    - jcr 15y ago
      HAVE A DOWN-VOTE! --A big, fat, and ugly DOWN-Vote! At this moment, you're probably mad and probably wondering what you did wrong as well as wondering if I'm just being an asshole. You're also looking at the score of your post and wondering why it is what it is; "Did he down-vote me and someone else up-voted me? Or is he just trying to make a point?" I was just making a point, so no, I did not actually down-vote you. The thing is, you and many others have fallen, "For exactly the same traps marketers set." The trap, even if entirely fake, is the reason for the your initial anger, confusion and pondering. This is an odd and harsh way of both supporting your point and refuting it. You are only human, so you'll get angry if you fall for a trap. None the less, you are correct; often the answer is to stop interacting with or buying from those who would try to trap you, but unfortunately, you do not always have the choice until after the fact.
teej 15y ago
Give me a break. This isn't evil marketers hiding in their underground lair. This is web developers, designers, and product managers gaining insight about their users. They don't package this information and sell it wholesale to advertisers. They use it to make the product better. You are taking this -way- too seriously. The ability to have perfect information on how users interact with your product is one the earth-shattering advantages we have as makers in the digital world. It means we can make something people want - better and faster than ever before. I'm not saying that all use of tracking is good. All power can be used for good and for evil. But that doesn't mean that power is implictly evil. Save your rage for when you discover someone actually being evil.
- jefft 15y ago
  Let's be clear: this ability isn't used to have perfect information on how users interact with your product. It's used to allow publishers to make more money from their consumers through advertising.
  - palish 15y ago
    I think the reason you're being downvoted is because you didn't provide any proof.
    - jefft 15y ago
      Sites like Hulu and Spotify predominately use web analytics to gauge their audience in order to sell advertising, not to make their sites better. That may be a by-product, but that's not driving their analytics usage. Additionally, cross-site tracking isn't used for feature/usage tracking. It's used for highly targeted advertising. My point was the "shattering advantages" are really advantages for advertisers, not web designers. This technique wasn't developed with web designers in mind, so let's be clear about that.
      - palish 15y ago
        ... And my point was, you didn't cite any evidence to back up your claims. Twice. EDIT: But apparently no one cares, and will listen to whoever talks like an authority.

Alex3917 15y ago

Except for that virtually every single one of the biggest problems we face is a marketing problem, rather than an issue where we don't have the science or technology: global warming, education reform, prison reform, the national debt, healthcare, literacy, food production, biodiversity, etc. Marketing is probably the single most important career there is right now, and if there's any hope of humanity making it through the next thousand years then it'll almost certainly be due to improvements in our ability to market things rather than new technology.

ewanmcteagle 15y ago
For those examples are you saying that science or research is clear? I think it isn't for any of them.
jberryman 15y ago
> Except for that virtually every single one of the biggest problems we face is a marketing problem, rather than an issue where we don't have the science or technology. Interesting point, and I agree. > if there's any hope of humanity making it through the next thousand years then it'll almost certainly be due to improvements in our ability to market things rather than new technology. If by our ability you mean progressives/the left, then I agree. Surely marketing per se is at best a neutral force.
dredmorbius 15y ago
You're making the leap from "every big problem we face is a marketing problem" to "and the solution is to track users in minute and excruciating detail". I can accept that there are ideas which are critical to the survival of the human race and/or modern civilization, which require mass education, and utterly reject your conclusion.
maukdaddy 15y ago
But here's the problem - on a whole, no one is paying marketers to solve these problems. Marketers make their money by shilling for products that are the opposite of the issues you listed above. For example, a newly minted MBA in Marketing needs to pay back school loans. Who has the money to pay them? Who has the job that will bring the most prestige and future earnings? The local farm selling grass-fed beef and organic products or P&G selling highly processed foods that are destroying the environment? The marketer is going to take the P&G job and then spend their time and brainpower convincing people to buy even more processed crap.
- jaredmck 15y ago
  Marketer is not a well-defined class. People who market may not identify as such- many don't even know they market. Marketing is just a word, a neat little box, it contains exactly and only what you want. While you have a lot of bile for marketers behind closed big corporate doors (and I agree they deserve much of this derision) the fact of the matter is, you always have a choice: stop buying their shit. It may take a lot of work to cut through all these layers of bullshit, sure, but ask yourself what it is about marketing which really makes you mad? Marketing, ads, or that you can't yet see through/around/past it enough to stop falling for exactly the traps marketers set?
  - jcr 15y ago
    HAVE A DOWN-VOTE! --A big, fat, and ugly DOWN-Vote! At this moment, you're probably mad and probably wondering what you did wrong as well as wondering if I'm just being an asshole. You're also looking at the score of your post and wondering why it is what it is; "Did he down-vote me and someone else up-voted me? Or is he just trying to make a point?" I was just making a point, so no, I did not actually down-vote you. The thing is, you and many others have fallen, "For exactly the same traps marketers set." The trap, even if entirely fake, is the reason for the your initial anger, confusion and pondering. This is an odd and harsh way of both supporting your point and refuting it. You are only human, so you'll get angry if you fall for a trap. None the less, you are correct; often the answer is to stop interacting with or buying from those who would try to trap you, but unfortunately, you do not always have the choice until after the fact.

teej 15y ago

Give me a break. This isn't evil marketers hiding in their underground lair. This is web developers, designers, and product managers gaining insight about their users. They don't package this information and sell it wholesale to advertisers. They use it to make the product better. You are taking this -way- too seriously. The ability to have perfect information on how users interact with your product is one the earth-shattering advantages we have as makers in the digital world. It means we can make something people want - better and faster than ever before. I'm not saying that all use of tracking is good. All power can be used for good and for evil. But that doesn't mean that power is implictly evil. Save your rage for when you discover someone actually being evil.

jefft 15y ago
Let's be clear: this ability isn't used to have perfect information on how users interact with your product. It's used to allow publishers to make more money from their consumers through advertising.
- palish 15y ago
  I think the reason you're being downvoted is because you didn't provide any proof.
  - jefft 15y ago
    Sites like Hulu and Spotify predominately use web analytics to gauge their audience in order to sell advertising, not to make their sites better. That may be a by-product, but that's not driving their analytics usage. Additionally, cross-site tracking isn't used for feature/usage tracking. It's used for highly targeted advertising. My point was the "shattering advantages" are really advantages for advertisers, not web designers. This technique wasn't developed with web designers in mind, so let's be clear about that.
    - palish 15y ago
      ... And my point was, you didn't cite any evidence to back up your claims. Twice. EDIT: But apparently no one cares, and will listen to whoever talks like an authority.