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Why humanoid? That's such an inefficient and overcomplicated structure for a "menial job" home robot. This is either a PR stunt or a luxury product.

foobiekr 5y ago
Or just a fraud like most of Musk's announcements.
pyinstallwoes 5y ago
Really? How many businesses practices are codified using anything other than human-like movement? To expect anything else is the outlier. Any human doing any job in physical labor without specialized design for non-human machinery/robotics is on notice.
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >To expect anything else is the outlier. Any human doing any job in physical labor without specialized design for non-human machinery/robotics is on notice. In fields of high automation, like cars, production lines are almost entirely automated. Where you find areas that humans are needed isn't because our fingers are uniquely adapted to any sort of problem - it's because the problem the human solves would likely need AGI for a robot to do. I don't think anyone is anywhere close to tackling AGI.
- handmodel 5y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE I feel like a lot of factories are going to go in this direction. Lots of complex automation but ultimately very simple mechanisms with a strong framework to make sure nothing goes wrong.
  - pyinstallwoes 5y ago
    What percentage of labor is factories? We're talking about all human physical labor.
    - handmodel 5y ago
      Is a cashier/bagger physical labor? Is stocking the shelves of a grocery store? What about a truck driver or unloader? I would say all these jobs would be automated but 0 of these would be automated by a humanoid. Driver/cashier/baggers will be computers with sensors and unlouder/shelfer will be robots more similar to that vid. Things like construction I think will be assembled ahead of time and brought to side with more automated cranes and sensors. The number of jobs that seem like "this can be automated but can't be automated by a robot and isn't worth it to build specific robot for but IS expensive enough to use a robot that will always be more expensive than a car" seems small to me.
adabae 5y ago
Stonks.
Geee 5y ago
It needs to be compatible with all human spaces and human tools. It'll need to be general purpose to keep unit costs low. This is why the human form is the best. It's not a menial home robot. It's designed to replace humans in every kind of physical labor.
- handmodel 5y ago
  This reminds me of images from the 1900s depicting the future when there were humanoid robots with lots of arms cleaning lots of dishes at once. Of course, it turns out, we did invent a machine to wash dishes but its just called a dish washing machine and is way better at it than humans with arms. I can't imagine many tasks where a humanoid will be useful. I'm sure you could say that something like house construction could be done by humanoids since there are lots of steps involved but I'm still skeptical that a bunch of specialized tools won't be better at this.
  - greenknight 5y ago
    The thing is, that this can work alongside humans. say you have 5 people bricklaying and one of those is this humanoid robot. its not a dramatic change from whats currently possible. They are a drop-in replacement. Think of it as a stepping stone. Like automated cars, Fully automated highways are a ways off where traffic lights are no longer needed, however automated cars that work alongside the rest of the roads are feasible in the near future. Yes there are better tools, its just a stepping stone to allow change. to force change.
    - handmodel 5y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s17IAj-XpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s17IAj-XpU There are bricklaying robots now I don't think they are used en masse but I think if we do get to the point of some type of brick laying robots being used it will surely be something like this that doesn't have the physical constraints of two arms with limited mobility + nowhere to store bricks
  - askonomm 5y ago
elihu 5y ago
I would hope that they can use a framework that's general enough to adapt to other form factors. So, making a humanoid is a way of giving themselves a difficult enough initial problem that they're less likely to be fooled by early success: the humanoid robot will have to self-balance, walk, open doors, and do a lot of the complex things that humans do without thinking in order to be considered a minimum-viable product. In the long run if this pans out, I'd expect to see farming and weeding hexapods, equipment-hauling centaurs, wheeled platforms with arms for getting around office spaces, construction bots with long-fingered hands and asymmetrical multi-jointed appendages, and so on. If the AI has a general capacity for motor-skill learning, then you can just give it whatever body is most optimal for the task at hand. I'm reminded of this video on training an AI to walk through simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQwh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQwh

foobiekr 5y ago

Or just a fraud like most of Musk's announcements.

pyinstallwoes 5y ago

Really? How many businesses practices are codified using anything other than human-like movement? To expect anything else is the outlier. Any human doing any job in physical labor without specialized design for non-human machinery/robotics is on notice.

nemothekid 5y ago
>To expect anything else is the outlier. Any human doing any job in physical labor without specialized design for non-human machinery/robotics is on notice. In fields of high automation, like cars, production lines are almost entirely automated. Where you find areas that humans are needed isn't because our fingers are uniquely adapted to any sort of problem - it's because the problem the human solves would likely need AGI for a robot to do. I don't think anyone is anywhere close to tackling AGI.
handmodel 5y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE I feel like a lot of factories are going to go in this direction. Lots of complex automation but ultimately very simple mechanisms with a strong framework to make sure nothing goes wrong.
- pyinstallwoes 5y ago
  What percentage of labor is factories? We're talking about all human physical labor.
  - handmodel 5y ago
    Is a cashier/bagger physical labor? Is stocking the shelves of a grocery store? What about a truck driver or unloader? I would say all these jobs would be automated but 0 of these would be automated by a humanoid. Driver/cashier/baggers will be computers with sensors and unlouder/shelfer will be robots more similar to that vid. Things like construction I think will be assembled ahead of time and brought to side with more automated cranes and sensors. The number of jobs that seem like "this can be automated but can't be automated by a robot and isn't worth it to build specific robot for but IS expensive enough to use a robot that will always be more expensive than a car" seems small to me.

adabae 5y ago

Stonks.

Geee 5y ago

It needs to be compatible with all human spaces and human tools. It'll need to be general purpose to keep unit costs low. This is why the human form is the best. It's not a menial home robot. It's designed to replace humans in every kind of physical labor.

handmodel 5y ago
This reminds me of images from the 1900s depicting the future when there were humanoid robots with lots of arms cleaning lots of dishes at once. Of course, it turns out, we did invent a machine to wash dishes but its just called a dish washing machine and is way better at it than humans with arms. I can't imagine many tasks where a humanoid will be useful. I'm sure you could say that something like house construction could be done by humanoids since there are lots of steps involved but I'm still skeptical that a bunch of specialized tools won't be better at this.
- greenknight 5y ago
  The thing is, that this can work alongside humans. say you have 5 people bricklaying and one of those is this humanoid robot. its not a dramatic change from whats currently possible. They are a drop-in replacement. Think of it as a stepping stone. Like automated cars, Fully automated highways are a ways off where traffic lights are no longer needed, however automated cars that work alongside the rest of the roads are feasible in the near future. Yes there are better tools, its just a stepping stone to allow change. to force change.
  - handmodel 5y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s17IAj-XpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s17IAj-XpU There are bricklaying robots now I don't think they are used en masse but I think if we do get to the point of some type of brick laying robots being used it will surely be something like this that doesn't have the physical constraints of two arms with limited mobility + nowhere to store bricks
- askonomm 5y ago

elihu 5y ago

I would hope that they can use a framework that's general enough to adapt to other form factors. So, making a humanoid is a way of giving themselves a difficult enough initial problem that they're less likely to be fooled by early success: the humanoid robot will have to self-balance, walk, open doors, and do a lot of the complex things that humans do without thinking in order to be considered a minimum-viable product. In the long run if this pans out, I'd expect to see farming and weeding hexapods, equipment-hauling centaurs, wheeled platforms with arms for getting around office spaces, construction bots with long-fingered hands and asymmetrical multi-jointed appendages, and so on. If the AI has a general capacity for motor-skill learning, then you can just give it whatever body is most optimal for the task at hand. I'm reminded of this video on training an AI to walk through simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQwh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQwh