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The only way there should be a legal hold on a phone like that, is if it is her work phone, which she shouldn't be having nude pics of herself on in the first p

The only way there should be a legal hold on a phone like that, is if it is her work phone, which she shouldn't be having nude pics of herself on in the first place.

cortesoft 5y ago
Personal devices could certainly be a part of discovery.
- dheera 5y ago
  The company has no legal right to even know you have a personal device. You could just say you don't have one. Or just quit the company if they ask you to hand over a personal device.
  - mediaman 5y ago
    In the US, you may not have freedom not to participate in a legal proceeding if discovery includes items on your personal device. Even if you quit.
  - lacker 5y ago
    It's almost always the other party in the lawsuit who is subpoenaing your past communications. Your employer is being forced by the court to retrieve these; it isn't their choice. It is in fact possible for your personal communications to get subpoenaed for a lawsuit related to your work. But, the other party will need some evidence that you had a conversation on a personal device that relates to the lawsuit. They can't just subpoena something like "all communications by employees relating to terms X and Y." Usually your employer would prefer that you not hand over your personal device. Because the other party is looking for some sort of "smoking gun" where employees admit that they think some corporate behavior is bad or breaking the law. The penalties for not cooperating here are bad enough, though, that companies will generally cooperate. And the situations where it's a personal device are relatively rare, usually it's just corporate devices. Quitting the company doesn't change anything. You can still be subpoenaed after you leave the company and the court can force you to turn things over. Source: I'm not a lawyer but I have had my communications subpoenaed from my time at both Google and Facebook and I have complained to many corporate lawyers about how stupid these rules are while they politely explained to me how the system works
    - dheera 5y ago
      This is stupid. Reformat your personal device every week as a habitual practice. Keep multiple personal devices. Use voice when possible so that wiretap laws protect you. Company should have no right to your family communications. I never use text.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - cortesoft 5y ago
        I don’t know why you keep saying it is the company that is trying to access your communications. It isn’t. It is the courts ordering you to hand over your communication. If you delete something that the court has ordered you to turn over, they can and will charge you with contempt. Again, this isn’t your employer doing this. Your employer would love if you didn’t turn over anything, but they are legally required to cooperate and will get in a lot of trouble if they don’t do their part.
        dheera 5y ago
        Well no, just reformat your device regularly and habitually just out of your own practice. Don't use text. Use voice calls. Maintain inbox zero on your personal e-mail. That way if ordered by the legal system you'll only actually have at most 1 week of personal data and none of it will be text. You won't be deleting anything after their request, you will just hand over what you have, which is incidentally not much. Wiretapping laws prevent courts from getting your voice records, at least in CA.
  - cortesoft 5y ago
    It’s not the company who is doing discovery. It is the legal system. You can’t quit out of that. If personal devices were not subject to legal discovery, every company would just have all the executives only use a personal device for all communication, and suddenly they are immune to discovery?
trhway 5y ago
> The only way there should be a legal hold on a phone like that, is if it is her work phone, which she shouldn't be having nude pics of herself on in the first place. some people use their personal phone for work email, etc. and miss the fact that that makes the phone basically a company property - i.e. the company can wipe it remotely, etc. Wrt. Apple requiring to not wipe out laptop before returning it i wonder how do they enforce it. In more than 2 decades i have never returned laptop without wiping it and wonder what can change that, if any.
- DevoidSimo 5y ago
  At least on android (maybe not used at apple?) there are work profiles. You install all the work stuff there, and that partition can be remotely wiped. All of your personal stuff is kept segregated. It's also nice that you can turn off the work profile during weekends and holidays so that you don't get work notifications.

The only way there should be a legal hold on a phone like that, is if it is her work phone, which she shouldn't be having nude pics of herself on in the first place.

cortesoft 5y ago

Personal devices could certainly be a part of discovery.

dheera 5y ago
The company has no legal right to even know you have a personal device. You could just say you don't have one. Or just quit the company if they ask you to hand over a personal device.
- mediaman 5y ago
  In the US, you may not have freedom not to participate in a legal proceeding if discovery includes items on your personal device. Even if you quit.
- lacker 5y ago
  It's almost always the other party in the lawsuit who is subpoenaing your past communications. Your employer is being forced by the court to retrieve these; it isn't their choice. It is in fact possible for your personal communications to get subpoenaed for a lawsuit related to your work. But, the other party will need some evidence that you had a conversation on a personal device that relates to the lawsuit. They can't just subpoena something like "all communications by employees relating to terms X and Y." Usually your employer would prefer that you not hand over your personal device. Because the other party is looking for some sort of "smoking gun" where employees admit that they think some corporate behavior is bad or breaking the law. The penalties for not cooperating here are bad enough, though, that companies will generally cooperate. And the situations where it's a personal device are relatively rare, usually it's just corporate devices. Quitting the company doesn't change anything. You can still be subpoenaed after you leave the company and the court can force you to turn things over. Source: I'm not a lawyer but I have had my communications subpoenaed from my time at both Google and Facebook and I have complained to many corporate lawyers about how stupid these rules are while they politely explained to me how the system works
  - dheera 5y ago
    This is stupid. Reformat your personal device every week as a habitual practice. Keep multiple personal devices. Use voice when possible so that wiretap laws protect you. Company should have no right to your family communications. I never use text.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - cortesoft 5y ago
      I don’t know why you keep saying it is the company that is trying to access your communications. It isn’t. It is the courts ordering you to hand over your communication. If you delete something that the court has ordered you to turn over, they can and will charge you with contempt. Again, this isn’t your employer doing this. Your employer would love if you didn’t turn over anything, but they are legally required to cooperate and will get in a lot of trouble if they don’t do their part.
      - dheera 5y ago
        Well no, just reformat your device regularly and habitually just out of your own practice. Don't use text. Use voice calls. Maintain inbox zero on your personal e-mail. That way if ordered by the legal system you'll only actually have at most 1 week of personal data and none of it will be text. You won't be deleting anything after their request, you will just hand over what you have, which is incidentally not much. Wiretapping laws prevent courts from getting your voice records, at least in CA.
- cortesoft 5y ago
  It’s not the company who is doing discovery. It is the legal system. You can’t quit out of that. If personal devices were not subject to legal discovery, every company would just have all the executives only use a personal device for all communication, and suddenly they are immune to discovery?

trhway 5y ago

> The only way there should be a legal hold on a phone like that, is if it is her work phone, which she shouldn't be having nude pics of herself on in the first place. some people use their personal phone for work email, etc. and miss the fact that that makes the phone basically a company property - i.e. the company can wipe it remotely, etc. Wrt. Apple requiring to not wipe out laptop before returning it i wonder how do they enforce it. In more than 2 decades i have never returned laptop without wiping it and wonder what can change that, if any.

DevoidSimo 5y ago
At least on android (maybe not used at apple?) there are work profiles. You install all the work stuff there, and that partition can be remotely wiped. All of your personal stuff is kept segregated. It's also nice that you can turn off the work profile during weekends and holidays so that you don't get work notifications.