4 ms·

> Meanwhile, most people can just gulp down four to six apples or carrots worth of juice -- pulp and all -- without feeling immediately satiated. > That's the d

> Meanwhile, most people can just gulp down four to six apples or carrots worth of juice -- pulp and all -- without feeling immediately satiated. > That's the difference: in juice form we can happily ingest far more food than we would prefer to eat via normal chewing. I wish people would apply this logic to things like olive oil where a tablespoon contains about 20 pressed olives and about 120 calories. It's one of the easiest way to eat hundreds of extra calories more than you should and lots of recipes suggest using a lot of it for frying and dressings. I think the common encouragement of "but you need fat, it's healthy fat and it's part of the Mediterranean Diet!" is a weird dietary blindspot when the goal is calorie reduction and fat deficiencies aren't the problem. It feel like it's only quite recently that fruit juices are being discouraged and that was a blindspot too. I don't advocate that there's some magic to a "whole food" diet except that not eating pressed, blended etc. stuff is a decent rule of thumb to slowing down much you can eat in one sitting.

ip26 5y ago
Olives are delicious, and I can eat twenty in seconds…
- seanwilson 5y ago
  Would you eat sixty olives plus a meal though? I see celebrity chefs free pouring way more than a tablespoon per serving in recipes all the time.
  - ip26 5y ago
    Aside from pesto I don’t use more than a Tbsp per serving- I suppose I am out of touch with celebrity chef cooking.
  - mcdevilkiller 5y ago
    Most of it ends up in the pan and plate, though
scns 5y ago
There was an experiment conducted with three groups of rats. The first got only fed carbohydrates and gained weight. The second ate only protein and lost weight. The third ate fat exclusively, their weight stayed the same.
- d110af5ccf 5y ago
  [citation needed] Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky, but you can't just make baseless claims and expect others to believe them. It's far easier to make claims than to verify them so there's a significant asymmetry at play here.
  - scns 5y ago
    Yeah, you are absolutely correct. Sadly i don't have a link at hand :(
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  Beware of translating rat results to humans, though. We can eat very high carb or very high fat diet for quite some time, but we very definitely cannot eat very high protein diet without getting seriously, potentially fatally sick within weeks. Protein poisoning is a thing in humans! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
  - phonypc 5y ago
    As that wikipedia page lays out, this is really a fat deficiency issue. Protein poisoning isn't really an accurate term for the condition.
  - scns 5y ago
    I would highly advise against that! Protein metabolism creates acidic byproducts. Your bloods ph must stay the same no matter what. If you don't counter those, your body will take calcium from your bones to level it. A diet high in protein needs to be balanced with vegetables and fruit. [edit]Counterintuitively even sour fruit is metabolized basically. The most alkaline food spinach is not without pitfalls though. High consumption over time will net you kidney stones.[/edit]
scns 5y ago
And for some personal anecdata (ie worthless): i eat a handfull of walnuts, one brazil nut and a handfull of almonds each morning. Additionally i down my bulky vitamin D supplement with olive oil which i directly pour in my mouth. May be one tablespoon, may be three. Gained two kilos of muscle in the last 6 months.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  Good fat is good for you is what I always say (:
- NathanielK 5y ago
  The science backs that up[0]. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSrsk6tbnkE&t=90s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSrsk6tbnkE&t=90s
- bartread 5y ago
  > Gained two kilos of muscle in the last 6 months. But presumably this was coupled with a fairly taxing exercise routine? (Lifting, calisthenics, climbing, or whatever?)
  - scns 5y ago
    It was coupled with a exercise regimen with less intensity but more volume. Thats why i managed to keep going for 6 months counting. 100/50/75%. 100% means 5x your 10RM (RepMax) for five sets. If you do deadlifts and benches you vary the weight. Since i did calisthenics mostly i did half the reps @ 50% ... It is a powerlifting cycle compressed to one week. Kettlebells are very well suited for this. 32/16/24, 16/8/12 or 8/4/6 for scrawny geeks like me, who learned their lesson and want to train to stay healthy and not destroy their joints.
    - cutemonster 5y ago
      Anywhere online where I can read about this? After 100%, do you wait some days and then do... 50%? 100%, 50%, 75% is during a week? Or one week in between each? Or is 100%, 50% and 75% on the same day? -- but that'd mean 75 reps, sounds like far too much
blix 5y ago
"Calorie reduction" is in general a rather poor goal when the result is overall health, and is overall not very well supported as a method of weight loss (which is only one axis of overall health). This is a larger blindspot than the calories in oil. It's actually pretty hard to eat 2000 calories a day with olive oil as the main source. Pasta and meat on the other hand are pretty easy. There's an increasingly large body of evidence that there is 'magic' to 'whole foods,' mainly through the avenue of microbiome health. The human body evolved to handle eating fruit, not diet soda.
- yomly 5y ago
  Also calories are so dumb. In its most primitive form, we burn food as a proxy for metabolism. Slightly more sophisticated techniques first breakdown the food by its components (sugars/fats) Calories are not just calories. That level of reduction is pseudoscience to the point where it's not really science. It's better than nothing, sure, but hair's breadth. Food is insanely complex and messy. The body's digestive chemistry is messy - a process of soups of enzymes, acids and bases. Metabolism is messy. Imagine the difference between chewing a stick of celery, a nut, drinking honey and drinking soda. Mechanically, the breakdown process of these differ wildly. Celery and nuts will be broken down very roughly. Honey is nice and viscous. Soda is lovely and runny. Now take those mechanically broken down food items and then pass them through a base bath and an acid bath and you'll unlock x% of compounds ready for metabolysis where x will differ wildly thanks also to the weird and wonderful world of solvation chemistry. THEN those compounds of varying energy richness will get broken down. The "calories" of an energy dense nut really aren't the same as a fructose-laden drink
  - seanwilson 5y ago
    What's a better measurement than calories then?
    - yomly 5y ago
      Unfortunately, for energy state of the art is calorimetry for now. But relying on just "energy" or calorimetry is a terrible heuristic for energy uptake or nutrition/dieting. I am not a nutritionist but I'd probably choose something akin to blood glucose over calories for food consumption. If I had to go so simple I'd probably optimise for sugar reduction. And after that carbohydrate reduction. You'll find you can eat a lot of food and food will be filling if you have a pseudo keto diet. You have to work so much harder to get your calories and fats (when not mixed with sugar) is much more satiating.

ip26 5y ago

Olives are delicious, and I can eat twenty in seconds…

seanwilson 5y ago
Would you eat sixty olives plus a meal though? I see celebrity chefs free pouring way more than a tablespoon per serving in recipes all the time.
- ip26 5y ago
  Aside from pesto I don’t use more than a Tbsp per serving- I suppose I am out of touch with celebrity chef cooking.
- mcdevilkiller 5y ago
  Most of it ends up in the pan and plate, though

scns 5y ago

There was an experiment conducted with three groups of rats. The first got only fed carbohydrates and gained weight. The second ate only protein and lost weight. The third ate fat exclusively, their weight stayed the same.

d110af5ccf 5y ago
[citation needed] Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky, but you can't just make baseless claims and expect others to believe them. It's far easier to make claims than to verify them so there's a significant asymmetry at play here.
- scns 5y ago
  Yeah, you are absolutely correct. Sadly i don't have a link at hand :(
inglor_cz 5y ago
Beware of translating rat results to humans, though. We can eat very high carb or very high fat diet for quite some time, but we very definitely cannot eat very high protein diet without getting seriously, potentially fatally sick within weeks. Protein poisoning is a thing in humans! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
- phonypc 5y ago
  As that wikipedia page lays out, this is really a fat deficiency issue. Protein poisoning isn't really an accurate term for the condition.
- scns 5y ago
  I would highly advise against that! Protein metabolism creates acidic byproducts. Your bloods ph must stay the same no matter what. If you don't counter those, your body will take calcium from your bones to level it. A diet high in protein needs to be balanced with vegetables and fruit. [edit]Counterintuitively even sour fruit is metabolized basically. The most alkaline food spinach is not without pitfalls though. High consumption over time will net you kidney stones.[/edit]

scns 5y ago

And for some personal anecdata (ie worthless): i eat a handfull of walnuts, one brazil nut and a handfull of almonds each morning. Additionally i down my bulky vitamin D supplement with olive oil which i directly pour in my mouth. May be one tablespoon, may be three. Gained two kilos of muscle in the last 6 months.

jazzyjackson 5y ago
Good fat is good for you is what I always say (:
NathanielK 5y ago
The science backs that up[0]. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSrsk6tbnkE&t=90s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSrsk6tbnkE&t=90s
bartread 5y ago
> Gained two kilos of muscle in the last 6 months. But presumably this was coupled with a fairly taxing exercise routine? (Lifting, calisthenics, climbing, or whatever?)
- scns 5y ago
  It was coupled with a exercise regimen with less intensity but more volume. Thats why i managed to keep going for 6 months counting. 100/50/75%. 100% means 5x your 10RM (RepMax) for five sets. If you do deadlifts and benches you vary the weight. Since i did calisthenics mostly i did half the reps @ 50% ... It is a powerlifting cycle compressed to one week. Kettlebells are very well suited for this. 32/16/24, 16/8/12 or 8/4/6 for scrawny geeks like me, who learned their lesson and want to train to stay healthy and not destroy their joints.
  - cutemonster 5y ago
    Anywhere online where I can read about this? After 100%, do you wait some days and then do... 50%? 100%, 50%, 75% is during a week? Or one week in between each? Or is 100%, 50% and 75% on the same day? -- but that'd mean 75 reps, sounds like far too much

blix 5y ago

"Calorie reduction" is in general a rather poor goal when the result is overall health, and is overall not very well supported as a method of weight loss (which is only one axis of overall health). This is a larger blindspot than the calories in oil. It's actually pretty hard to eat 2000 calories a day with olive oil as the main source. Pasta and meat on the other hand are pretty easy. There's an increasingly large body of evidence that there is 'magic' to 'whole foods,' mainly through the avenue of microbiome health. The human body evolved to handle eating fruit, not diet soda.

yomly 5y ago
Also calories are so dumb. In its most primitive form, we burn food as a proxy for metabolism. Slightly more sophisticated techniques first breakdown the food by its components (sugars/fats) Calories are not just calories. That level of reduction is pseudoscience to the point where it's not really science. It's better than nothing, sure, but hair's breadth. Food is insanely complex and messy. The body's digestive chemistry is messy - a process of soups of enzymes, acids and bases. Metabolism is messy. Imagine the difference between chewing a stick of celery, a nut, drinking honey and drinking soda. Mechanically, the breakdown process of these differ wildly. Celery and nuts will be broken down very roughly. Honey is nice and viscous. Soda is lovely and runny. Now take those mechanically broken down food items and then pass them through a base bath and an acid bath and you'll unlock x% of compounds ready for metabolysis where x will differ wildly thanks also to the weird and wonderful world of solvation chemistry. THEN those compounds of varying energy richness will get broken down. The "calories" of an energy dense nut really aren't the same as a fructose-laden drink
- seanwilson 5y ago
  What's a better measurement than calories then?
  - yomly 5y ago
    Unfortunately, for energy state of the art is calorimetry for now. But relying on just "energy" or calorimetry is a terrible heuristic for energy uptake or nutrition/dieting. I am not a nutritionist but I'd probably choose something akin to blood glucose over calories for food consumption. If I had to go so simple I'd probably optimise for sugar reduction. And after that carbohydrate reduction. You'll find you can eat a lot of food and food will be filling if you have a pseudo keto diet. You have to work so much harder to get your calories and fats (when not mixed with sugar) is much more satiating.