5 ms·

Just because not needing lidar would be great for Tesla, doesn't make it real. That's wishful thinking. Tesla is not entitled to a well working lidar-free solut

by c-cube 5y ago

Just because not needing lidar would be great for Tesla, doesn't make it real. That's wishful thinking. Tesla is not entitled to a well working lidar-free solution just because they need to sell cars right now.

panick21 5y ago
Can you point me to literally any evidence what so ever that the results fake? Is the FSD Beta regularly crashing into things it put at the wrong range? Tesla has cars with Lidar on the road to check the models as well. And who says anything about entitled, they have spent a huge amount of effort and therefore money into a solution that they think will be better. Nobody with Lidar has delivered either so what is better is still an open question. Tesla has picked their strategy and working on it. Others do the same. My point is simply, not that Tesla has the perfect solution, rather the idea that Tesla is operating based on 'ego' is idiotic. Elon Musk and his companies have repeatably shown that they are very willing, comically so, to throw away work and go back to the beginning if they have encountered a problem. E lon is well known for not falling into the sunk cost fallacy. Consider the manufacturing of Model 3. Consider Starship being planned to be built from carbon fiber, and switching to stainless steel. Do you really believe they know lidar would be better and they not changing because of what Musk said 4 years ago? That is literally the opposite of how his company have operated.
- sangnoir 5y ago
  > Is the FSD Beta regularly crashing into things it put at the wrong range? As a matter of fact, yes: self-driving Teslas have been crashing into emergency vehicles so often, they are being investigated[1] 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28197355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28197355
  - Cogito 5y ago
    Just in case you missed it, the person you're replying to asked a focused question about the new FSD Beta software. The investigation you reference stems from previous versions of the softawre. The broader context can't be ignored when discussing the new software, but it's reasonable to point to progress as demonstration that the chosen technology path is a viable one.
  - tim333 5y ago
    I don't think that's a range thing though. It's confusing the vehicles with things like road signs or puddles that you can drive over/past.
    - simiones 5y ago
      That's exactly a range thing: LIDAR could tell you that there is an obstacle in front of you, it couldn't mistake a 3D object for a 2D picture on the road.
- c-cube 5y ago
  Like you say, FSD beta is new, so, no. The autopilot software has killed people though. The sunk cost fallacy is stronger when it's not just R&D but thousands of people who paid 10k$ on the promise that their car had all the hardware required... Cars that shipped without a lidar. And I believe waymo uses lidar and has, as far as I know, killed nobody. They also take a more cautious approach where bystanders are not turned into beta testers, of course :-)
  - cycrutchfield 5y ago
    > The autopilot software has killed people though. Sorry, what’s your point? You need to prove that the autopilot software has killed more people than if the cars were driven by humans. > And I believe waymo uses lidar and has, as far as I know, killed nobody. With a footprint probably orders of magnitude smaller than Tesla. What do you want to bet is the difference in terms of miles driven by Waymo vs. miles driven by Tesla autopilot?

by c-cube 5y ago

panick21 5y ago

Can you point me to literally any evidence what so ever that the results fake? Is the FSD Beta regularly crashing into things it put at the wrong range? Tesla has cars with Lidar on the road to check the models as well. And who says anything about entitled, they have spent a huge amount of effort and therefore money into a solution that they think will be better. Nobody with Lidar has delivered either so what is better is still an open question. Tesla has picked their strategy and working on it. Others do the same. My point is simply, not that Tesla has the perfect solution, rather the idea that Tesla is operating based on 'ego' is idiotic. Elon Musk and his companies have repeatably shown that they are very willing, comically so, to throw away work and go back to the beginning if they have encountered a problem. E lon is well known for not falling into the sunk cost fallacy. Consider the manufacturing of Model 3. Consider Starship being planned to be built from carbon fiber, and switching to stainless steel. Do you really believe they know lidar would be better and they not changing because of what Musk said 4 years ago? That is literally the opposite of how his company have operated.

sangnoir 5y ago
> Is the FSD Beta regularly crashing into things it put at the wrong range? As a matter of fact, yes: self-driving Teslas have been crashing into emergency vehicles so often, they are being investigated[1] 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28197355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28197355
- Cogito 5y ago
  Just in case you missed it, the person you're replying to asked a focused question about the new FSD Beta software. The investigation you reference stems from previous versions of the softawre. The broader context can't be ignored when discussing the new software, but it's reasonable to point to progress as demonstration that the chosen technology path is a viable one.
- tim333 5y ago
  I don't think that's a range thing though. It's confusing the vehicles with things like road signs or puddles that you can drive over/past.
  - simiones 5y ago
    That's exactly a range thing: LIDAR could tell you that there is an obstacle in front of you, it couldn't mistake a 3D object for a 2D picture on the road.
c-cube 5y ago
Like you say, FSD beta is new, so, no. The autopilot software has killed people though. The sunk cost fallacy is stronger when it's not just R&D but thousands of people who paid 10k$ on the promise that their car had all the hardware required... Cars that shipped without a lidar. And I believe waymo uses lidar and has, as far as I know, killed nobody. They also take a more cautious approach where bystanders are not turned into beta testers, of course :-)
- cycrutchfield 5y ago
  > The autopilot software has killed people though. Sorry, what’s your point? You need to prove that the autopilot software has killed more people than if the cars were driven by humans. > And I believe waymo uses lidar and has, as far as I know, killed nobody. With a footprint probably orders of magnitude smaller than Tesla. What do you want to bet is the difference in terms of miles driven by Waymo vs. miles driven by Tesla autopilot?