3 ms·
I’m so tired of this “in mice” meme, it tells us nothing about how accurate the predictions can be made from these experiments. Can everyone just assume “in mic
by andy_ppp 5y ago
I’m so tired of this “in mice” meme, it tells us nothing about how accurate the predictions can be made from these experiments. Can everyone just assume “in mice” is the default and in humans the exception? We do experiments in mice because so much is the same between mammals.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoWe do experiments in mice because they are cheap, most people don't care too much if you kill them and dissect them, it's actually quite hard to get meaningful data from humans and a violation of a bunch of medical ethics stuff to do similar experiments in humans. I happen to think "in mice" matters. We don't really know how well that translates and I read medical research pieces because I have a serious condition. For me, the stakes are fairly serious. Killing or not killing me is not hypothetical. It's very real.
- bb88 5y agoThe title doesn't specify it. Also a lot of human to mice analog studies have been performed in the past. If you insist all studies be only performed on humans, the progress of science will slow dramatically. The killing you or not killing you is a bit of a red herring argument. If you're that close to death you should find the best doctors and rely on them than whatever you read on some orange colored website.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- LegitShady 5y agoNo one is demanding they stop doing studies on mice, rather many people want these articles to make very clear if the results of studies are from humans or mice, because the results often don't translate across species.
- bb88 5y agoMaybe bring that up with the authors then? I would assume they would have felt the need to place that in their title if they believed it would be needed.
- LegitShady 5y agoIt's a long standing complaint about mouse studies - but when people add 'in mice' to titles readers care less, so they don't do that. Even nature has clickbait now.
- andy_ppp 5y agoI’m saying it’s pointless information because 99% of studies are done in mice, we should label the studies that are in humans (i.e. the exception). It’s almost certainly safe unless it says otherwise for people to stop writing this pointless meme after every study that ever appears anywhere. If it is really in humans that will be in the title in most cases because it’s surprising information.
- kortex 5y agoMice/rats are a decent model, you just have to know how to extrapolate: - toxicity - rats are actually pretty good once you correct for metabolism (divide LD50 by 6). Humans and rats consume lots of xenobiotics due to our versatile diets - neuroscience, anything below the prefrontal cortex is pretty well conserved between rats and primates - cancer - kinda garbage. Mice and rats get cancer at the drop of a hat. But if it doesn't give rats cancer, that's a really good indicator of safety - exercise - generally extrapolates pretty well The worst is probably things like higher neuroscience, Alzheimers, and diet. Mice in particular are more vulnerable to high fat and high sugar diets than humans. It's fairly easy to induce diabetes in mice, but again, useful in that it increases sensitivity. But also means anti-diabetes drugs may have exaggerated effects.