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You gotta love the HN crowd who finds a way to remain skeptical after cryptocurrency continues to occupy more and more ground in the financial world. Cryptocurr

You gotta love the HN crowd who finds a way to remain skeptical after cryptocurrency continues to occupy more and more ground in the financial world. Cryptocurrency continues to expand and grow by every conceivable metric and some people still think it's a fragile scam. Here's a hint: when your politicians already own cryptocurrency and are arguing in its favor, that's the signal that the industry has already basically captured the regulators and the game is over. Crypto is here to stay.

ryan93 5y ago
How does taking crypto improve lending or the customer experience. What value was created?
- okwubodu 5y ago
  A few weeks back I sent money to someone on the Solana network and they saw it in their wallet before I could say I pressed send. That’s fairly valuable.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Did you include the time it takes to buy solana on an exchange and the time it takes to sell solana on another exchange and settlement periods on both sides? You said send money, which solana is not so you should include the whole process. Instant payments have been available through the world for ages, SEPA for instance and soon RTP in the US but that value doesn’t accrue to the underlying currency. That makes the service valuable not the medium. Not to mention square cash and Venmo. The value is captured in the equity of the companies not in dollars. Now you could tell me solana is both like paying someone in square shares via square cash but now you’ve got a security on your hands and about 1000 more problems.
    - robot_no_419 5y ago
      Personal anecdotes about this: Everyone I talk to who has actually used cryptocurrency all think it's easier to use than conventional finance. Venmo and Circle have cash limits (which caused a problem when I was helping someone buy a car once) as well as geographic restrictions (which was also a problem once when I was sending someone in South America some payments). It also takes 3 days to verify a new bank with Venmo (unless you want to give them your banking credentials, which is absolutely insane). Some of my friends use Venmo, others use Circle, others use Cashapp... it's a mess of centralized and disjoint products. Plus, I've been battling with Venmo's customer support for days now because my new phone number apparently was used before to activate an account and they need to see my phone bill to release it. Sorry, I just really hate Venmo right now.
      - wilg 5y ago
        Wait until you find out how many cryptocurrencies there are!
        robot_no_419 5y ago
        I have a single app that can 1) host hundreds of different coins, and 2) convert them on a built in exchange. So this has been a complete non-issue for me. If there's a single app that lets me use Venmo and Paypal and Cashapp all at the same time, I'd love to know about it.
    - okwubodu 5y ago
      > You said send money, which solana is not so you should include the whole process. You’re right, even though it’s still faster for me. But the whole point of allowing payments in crypto is removing steps from that process. Which is valuable. > The value is captured in the equity of the companies not in dollars. I do not care about companies. If it helps people I’m for it.
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        > I do not care about companies. If it helps people I’m for it. I suspect you completely missed my point.
  - FabHK 5y ago
    Today I sent EUR to someone by Bank (N26) and they had it in their account within a minute, no fee. A while back I sent a BTC transaction, $50 fee, and it took around 20 hours to confirm. Fast, reliable transfers are valuable, but hardly a property of crypto alone.
    - okwubodu 5y ago
      > A while back I sent a BTC transaction, $50 fee, and it took around 20 hours to confirm. Haha yeah I specified SOL for that reason. I don’t envy anyone moving BTC and ETH around but I suppose the beauty is in choice. I can’t Zelle you USD overseas but I can send crypto just as fast.
- robot_no_419 5y ago
  I don't have to answer this question for cryptocurrency to be successful. If you don't understand (or don't want to), that's your financial prerogative. YoY metrics such as total number of users, total number of on chain txns, total number of exchanges and companies are all increasing. No conversation on HN is going to change the fact that an ever growing population of people and companies DO see value in crypto. So maybe ask yourself why it's only getting stronger if there's zero value to be found in this industry.
  - Dayshine 5y ago
    Plenty of exploitative, capitalist, anti-consumer, business models are successful.
    - robot_no_419 5y ago
      Sure, and what? My point was that left on its own, cryptocurrency is clearly on a trajectory to a permanent place in the financial system. Idk if it's good or bad, but it's happening unless global regulators all coordinate to impose extremely draconian measures to stop it. Otherwise, the technological and financial elements clearly have staying power.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > What value was created? Borrowers want to pay with crypto. Originators add a new FX-esque transactional revenue stream. Seems like a classic win-win.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
andrewmcwatters 5y ago
Interesting that no one thinks holding 100% gold is an investment. I wonder why people don't think holding 100% bytes is either.
mgh2 5y ago
I wonder if HN was skeptical during the dot com bubble... Politicians are as gullible as the public when it comes to quick money. Some organizations today which are scams are allowed to live due to certain freedoms, does not prove the contrary - ex: Scientology, MLMs, etc.
- zarzavat 5y ago
  Politicians can see where the innovation is happening, unlike half of HN apparently. HN/SV's idea for disruption of money transfer is something like Venmo, where you can send money from one person in US to another person in US through an app. Cryptocurrency's idea for disruption of money transfer is that you sign a transaction and broadcast it, and it works anywhere in the world without discriminating on nationality, and without any counterparty or intermediary.
endymi0n 5y ago
As someone who‘s been through the dotcom bubble, I vividly remember talking to my classmate driving home on our bikes and he told me about the Infineon stock he just bought. We were kids, 16 years old and felt like the smart brokers in the magazines. In retrospect, the writing was on the wall when tabloids were advising to excited and innocent consumers which stock to buy on their front page. The shock didn‘t come more than a year after and it was mostly the last ones to buy in to get burned. This time, it‘s worse. In the 90‘s, it was all real stock, and it was getting visible when the companies started to underperform. There were a few physical assets to sell. This time, it‘s much worse and the crypto boys will only find out that the only real value their bytes have is whatever anyone else is willing to pay for it. I‘m not worried about crypto being here to stay. That won‘t happen. I‘m worried about what it will take with it when it vaporizes in front of the bulls.
- robot_no_419 5y ago
  People who are still comparing equity (a legal contract representing ownership in a centralized US company) to cryptocurrency (a novel class of commodities that has no central authority or legal structure) are comparing apples to gold bars.
- meowface 5y ago
  >I‘m not worried about crypto being here to stay. That won‘t happen. I‘m worried about what it will take with it when it vaporizes in front of the bulls. Can you elaborate? You think all cryptocurrencies will disappear / drop to $0.00? I'm sure there'll be more massive market crashes to come, but you're saying one day every cryptocurrency will suddenly just be done and gone and that's it and no one's using, buying, or selling any cryptocurrencies again after that point?

ryan93 5y ago

How does taking crypto improve lending or the customer experience. What value was created?

okwubodu 5y ago
A few weeks back I sent money to someone on the Solana network and they saw it in their wallet before I could say I pressed send. That’s fairly valuable.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Did you include the time it takes to buy solana on an exchange and the time it takes to sell solana on another exchange and settlement periods on both sides? You said send money, which solana is not so you should include the whole process. Instant payments have been available through the world for ages, SEPA for instance and soon RTP in the US but that value doesn’t accrue to the underlying currency. That makes the service valuable not the medium. Not to mention square cash and Venmo. The value is captured in the equity of the companies not in dollars. Now you could tell me solana is both like paying someone in square shares via square cash but now you’ve got a security on your hands and about 1000 more problems.
  - robot_no_419 5y ago
    Personal anecdotes about this: Everyone I talk to who has actually used cryptocurrency all think it's easier to use than conventional finance. Venmo and Circle have cash limits (which caused a problem when I was helping someone buy a car once) as well as geographic restrictions (which was also a problem once when I was sending someone in South America some payments). It also takes 3 days to verify a new bank with Venmo (unless you want to give them your banking credentials, which is absolutely insane). Some of my friends use Venmo, others use Circle, others use Cashapp... it's a mess of centralized and disjoint products. Plus, I've been battling with Venmo's customer support for days now because my new phone number apparently was used before to activate an account and they need to see my phone bill to release it. Sorry, I just really hate Venmo right now.
    - wilg 5y ago
      Wait until you find out how many cryptocurrencies there are!
      - robot_no_419 5y ago
        I have a single app that can 1) host hundreds of different coins, and 2) convert them on a built in exchange. So this has been a complete non-issue for me. If there's a single app that lets me use Venmo and Paypal and Cashapp all at the same time, I'd love to know about it.
  - okwubodu 5y ago
    > You said send money, which solana is not so you should include the whole process. You’re right, even though it’s still faster for me. But the whole point of allowing payments in crypto is removing steps from that process. Which is valuable. > The value is captured in the equity of the companies not in dollars. I do not care about companies. If it helps people I’m for it.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      > I do not care about companies. If it helps people I’m for it. I suspect you completely missed my point.
- FabHK 5y ago
  Today I sent EUR to someone by Bank (N26) and they had it in their account within a minute, no fee. A while back I sent a BTC transaction, $50 fee, and it took around 20 hours to confirm. Fast, reliable transfers are valuable, but hardly a property of crypto alone.
  - okwubodu 5y ago
    > A while back I sent a BTC transaction, $50 fee, and it took around 20 hours to confirm. Haha yeah I specified SOL for that reason. I don’t envy anyone moving BTC and ETH around but I suppose the beauty is in choice. I can’t Zelle you USD overseas but I can send crypto just as fast.
robot_no_419 5y ago
I don't have to answer this question for cryptocurrency to be successful. If you don't understand (or don't want to), that's your financial prerogative. YoY metrics such as total number of users, total number of on chain txns, total number of exchanges and companies are all increasing. No conversation on HN is going to change the fact that an ever growing population of people and companies DO see value in crypto. So maybe ask yourself why it's only getting stronger if there's zero value to be found in this industry.
- Dayshine 5y ago
  Plenty of exploitative, capitalist, anti-consumer, business models are successful.
  - robot_no_419 5y ago
    Sure, and what? My point was that left on its own, cryptocurrency is clearly on a trajectory to a permanent place in the financial system. Idk if it's good or bad, but it's happening unless global regulators all coordinate to impose extremely draconian measures to stop it. Otherwise, the technological and financial elements clearly have staying power.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> What value was created? Borrowers want to pay with crypto. Originators add a new FX-esque transactional revenue stream. Seems like a classic win-win.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

andrewmcwatters 5y ago

Interesting that no one thinks holding 100% gold is an investment. I wonder why people don't think holding 100% bytes is either.

mgh2 5y ago

I wonder if HN was skeptical during the dot com bubble... Politicians are as gullible as the public when it comes to quick money. Some organizations today which are scams are allowed to live due to certain freedoms, does not prove the contrary - ex: Scientology, MLMs, etc.

zarzavat 5y ago
Politicians can see where the innovation is happening, unlike half of HN apparently. HN/SV's idea for disruption of money transfer is something like Venmo, where you can send money from one person in US to another person in US through an app. Cryptocurrency's idea for disruption of money transfer is that you sign a transaction and broadcast it, and it works anywhere in the world without discriminating on nationality, and without any counterparty or intermediary.

endymi0n 5y ago

As someone who‘s been through the dotcom bubble, I vividly remember talking to my classmate driving home on our bikes and he told me about the Infineon stock he just bought. We were kids, 16 years old and felt like the smart brokers in the magazines. In retrospect, the writing was on the wall when tabloids were advising to excited and innocent consumers which stock to buy on their front page. The shock didn‘t come more than a year after and it was mostly the last ones to buy in to get burned. This time, it‘s worse. In the 90‘s, it was all real stock, and it was getting visible when the companies started to underperform. There were a few physical assets to sell. This time, it‘s much worse and the crypto boys will only find out that the only real value their bytes have is whatever anyone else is willing to pay for it. I‘m not worried about crypto being here to stay. That won‘t happen. I‘m worried about what it will take with it when it vaporizes in front of the bulls.

robot_no_419 5y ago
People who are still comparing equity (a legal contract representing ownership in a centralized US company) to cryptocurrency (a novel class of commodities that has no central authority or legal structure) are comparing apples to gold bars.
meowface 5y ago
>I‘m not worried about crypto being here to stay. That won‘t happen. I‘m worried about what it will take with it when it vaporizes in front of the bulls. Can you elaborate? You think all cryptocurrencies will disappear / drop to $0.00? I'm sure there'll be more massive market crashes to come, but you're saying one day every cryptocurrency will suddenly just be done and gone and that's it and no one's using, buying, or selling any cryptocurrencies again after that point?