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Looking at a fragment another recent video I don't feel like it's really that great yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjztvddhZmI&t=644s https://www.youtube.

Looking at a fragment another recent video I don't feel like it's really that great yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjztvddhZmI&t=644s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjztvddhZmI&t=644s Yes it's amazing what they can do, but if after all this time they can't even react correctly in such a simple situation I really wonder if full self driving is feasible.

Crash0v3rid3 5y ago
What exactly was wrong in the example clip you provided? To me, it looks like the car rightfully stopped because it assumed the person was going to cross the parking lot.
- CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
  The person was clearly not going to cross right there at the corner so such an abrupt stop was totally unnecessary. If the car assumed he was going to stop a bit further at the yellow lines it should have either braked earlier or just keep on driving. The way it reacted it IMO just looks like clueless new driver.
  - random314 5y ago
    Not clear at all that the person wouldn't cross the corner.
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    I wonder if you had a million such scenarios would the pedestrian surprisingly step in front of the car at least once? Humans, who never experience a million such cases, would learn that such things just don't happen and would take the one in a million risk of bumping that guy if he decided to be stupid. The machine driver, if we're being charitable, may be trying to minimize even rare accidents accepting the cost of less pleasant passenger conditions.
  - _Algernon_ 5y ago
    Sure, but it didn't endanger anyone, which can't be said for some (many?) human drivers.
  - iseanstevens 5y ago
    The cost of stopping was extremely low. I think this was a totally reasonable action
    - ghaff 5y ago
      I'd say that kind of stop has a very non-trivial chance that someone will rear-end you. Which is "their" fault but you can go out on pretty much any given day and cause an accident that is someone else's technical fault if you want to. Looking at that video seems pretty clear he's not going to cross. I'd expect at least some eye contact. If it were more ambiguous, as a driver, I'd probably gently slow down do I could stop quickly if circumstances demanded.
      - random314 5y ago
        Except that Waymo's vehicles also have cameras on the back, and can accommodate that scenario as well.
        ghaff 5y ago
        That only works if they wouldn't stop if someone were close behind. Sometimes you need to decide which is the worse outcome.
        random314 5y ago
        I am not sure where you are going with this argument. Why do you think they would stop even if they will be rear ended? Do you have access to their algorithm? The computer will choose the action that minimizes the probability of harm. And they have more sensors and data in this situation.
deadmutex 5y ago
> can't even react correctly in such a simple situation I really wonder if full self driving is feasible I don't know if you can extrapolate from "can't react correctly in such a simple situation" for a few reasons. Fristly, I will point out that car stopped, but the complaint was that it was little bit more jerky than preferred. Also, automated drivers will excel and fail at different scenarios. Imagine the other way around: Imagine if Waymo's tech was ready for all roads, and we were evaluating letting humans drive in manual. One could say things like: "I saw a human apply the break suddenly on the highway because they were checking their mirrors for a lane change when the car in front of the slowed down. The human had a delayed reaction because they were checking their mirrors. An automated driver would be able to analyze the lane change, and the traffic in front of them at the same time. Also the reaction time of the automated system is superior than humans... so I wonder if human driving is feasible." I think when comparing FSD, one needs to compare it to human driving at some percentile, and not perfection :).
- CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
  > An automated driver would be able to analyze the lane change, and the traffic in front of them at the same time. Also the reaction time of the automated system is superior than humans... And yet here we see that the car either has a very slow reaction time or doesn't understand how pedestrians move around. That's what concerning me. Looking at the video again maybe, maybe the car thought the cart would roll further on the road when making the corner? That would justify the sudden reaction. It's also the only interaction with a pedestrian in the video and I see no interactions with bikes. I'd say that if they were able to deal with those they would show it.
gerash 5y ago
I agree that completely solving self driving is not feasible but a constrained version is. That said, there is also the factor of the car brake system. My hybrid car has a fairly rough transition from regenerative brake to the friction one which sometimes results in such sudden stops
- Causality1 5y ago
  That may not be such a bad thing. When self-driving cars are better than a human driver in every single way, car companies have no reason to sell the cars instead of adding them to a massive robo-taxi fleet. A nearly-uncrashable car that handles everything except the first and last sixty seconds of every trip is close to the ideal outcome for consumers, in my opinion.

Crash0v3rid3 5y ago

What exactly was wrong in the example clip you provided? To me, it looks like the car rightfully stopped because it assumed the person was going to cross the parking lot.

CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
The person was clearly not going to cross right there at the corner so such an abrupt stop was totally unnecessary. If the car assumed he was going to stop a bit further at the yellow lines it should have either braked earlier or just keep on driving. The way it reacted it IMO just looks like clueless new driver.
- random314 5y ago
  Not clear at all that the person wouldn't cross the corner.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  I wonder if you had a million such scenarios would the pedestrian surprisingly step in front of the car at least once? Humans, who never experience a million such cases, would learn that such things just don't happen and would take the one in a million risk of bumping that guy if he decided to be stupid. The machine driver, if we're being charitable, may be trying to minimize even rare accidents accepting the cost of less pleasant passenger conditions.
- _Algernon_ 5y ago
  Sure, but it didn't endanger anyone, which can't be said for some (many?) human drivers.
- iseanstevens 5y ago
  The cost of stopping was extremely low. I think this was a totally reasonable action
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I'd say that kind of stop has a very non-trivial chance that someone will rear-end you. Which is "their" fault but you can go out on pretty much any given day and cause an accident that is someone else's technical fault if you want to. Looking at that video seems pretty clear he's not going to cross. I'd expect at least some eye contact. If it were more ambiguous, as a driver, I'd probably gently slow down do I could stop quickly if circumstances demanded.
    - random314 5y ago
      Except that Waymo's vehicles also have cameras on the back, and can accommodate that scenario as well.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        That only works if they wouldn't stop if someone were close behind. Sometimes you need to decide which is the worse outcome.
        random314 5y ago
        I am not sure where you are going with this argument. Why do you think they would stop even if they will be rear ended? Do you have access to their algorithm? The computer will choose the action that minimizes the probability of harm. And they have more sensors and data in this situation.

deadmutex 5y ago

> can't even react correctly in such a simple situation I really wonder if full self driving is feasible I don't know if you can extrapolate from "can't react correctly in such a simple situation" for a few reasons. Fristly, I will point out that car stopped, but the complaint was that it was little bit more jerky than preferred. Also, automated drivers will excel and fail at different scenarios. Imagine the other way around: Imagine if Waymo's tech was ready for all roads, and we were evaluating letting humans drive in manual. One could say things like: "I saw a human apply the break suddenly on the highway because they were checking their mirrors for a lane change when the car in front of the slowed down. The human had a delayed reaction because they were checking their mirrors. An automated driver would be able to analyze the lane change, and the traffic in front of them at the same time. Also the reaction time of the automated system is superior than humans... so I wonder if human driving is feasible." I think when comparing FSD, one needs to compare it to human driving at some percentile, and not perfection :).

CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
> An automated driver would be able to analyze the lane change, and the traffic in front of them at the same time. Also the reaction time of the automated system is superior than humans... And yet here we see that the car either has a very slow reaction time or doesn't understand how pedestrians move around. That's what concerning me. Looking at the video again maybe, maybe the car thought the cart would roll further on the road when making the corner? That would justify the sudden reaction. It's also the only interaction with a pedestrian in the video and I see no interactions with bikes. I'd say that if they were able to deal with those they would show it.

gerash 5y ago

I agree that completely solving self driving is not feasible but a constrained version is. That said, there is also the factor of the car brake system. My hybrid car has a fairly rough transition from regenerative brake to the friction one which sometimes results in such sudden stops

Causality1 5y ago
That may not be such a bad thing. When self-driving cars are better than a human driver in every single way, car companies have no reason to sell the cars instead of adding them to a massive robo-taxi fleet. A nearly-uncrashable car that handles everything except the first and last sixty seconds of every trip is close to the ideal outcome for consumers, in my opinion.