5 ms·

It seems a lot of people in this post are opposed to payment processors pressuring OnlyFans to do this. When Google, Apple, Amazon, et al. simultaneously took

by jwond 5y ago

It seems a lot of people in this post are opposed to payment processors pressuring OnlyFans to do this. When Google, Apple, Amazon, et al. simultaneously took actions that resulted in the shutdown of Gab it seemed a lot of people supported it. Now they could very well be completely disjoint groups, but I’d be interested if anyone who opposes the payment processors pressuring OnlyFans but supported the actions taken against Gab could explain how they reconcile the two positions. In both cases we have companies with dominant positions in the market denying or threatening to deny crucial services to another company.

ribosometronome 5y ago
Are you surprised folk agree with things that fit their morals and disagree with ones that don't? Gab was being used to promote hate, violence, and misinformation. Onlyfans is not those things. This feels akin to saying something like, "Oh, you were onboard when the government criminalized murder, how do you feel now that they're criminalizing weed?!"
- jwond 5y ago
  > Gab was being used to promote hate, violence, and misinformation So is every other social media site
  - ribosometronome 5y ago
    Gab was created as a reaction to other social media sites trying to remove that content. They're clearly different beasts even if Facebook and Twitter don't do nearly good enough of a job at tackling it.
- stale2002 5y ago
  The point is that people who talk about a slippery slope were correct. The more that you let large and powerful organizations, get away with targeting groups that you don't like, the more likely that those powerful organizations are going to be able to turn the guns on you, or your favorite cause, when public opinion doesn't go your way. Neutral platforms, that don't discrimination, protects your enemies as well as your self. The slippery slope is real. The people who oppose neutral platforms have made their bed. Now we'll see if they change their mind once they have to lay in it.
  - ribosometronome 5y ago
    Assuming the issue is with payment processors, it's an existing issue. The same thing happened with Patreon and has been happening with other websites selling adult content for ages. If anything, the slope that they slipped down was the one resulting in Gab's troubles. Most people don't really want neutral platforms. If you go to a restaurant and another customer is violently drunk, yelling, and really just ruining the night for everyone, we hope they get kicked out so that we can appreciate the restaurant. The person saying, "Yeah but next they're gonna come for [insert whatever thing that shouldn't result in getting kicked out]" could be right and the restaurant may cross what you think the line should be, but that doesn't mean that the restaurant was wrong to kick out the violently drunk person. Similarly, I've seen dang around on HackerNews giving folks warning about their comments not really being a great fit, because they're low-effort, out of place, etc. In general, it keeps the quality of discussion here /way/ better than you'd see on Reddit. I like that they work to keep it that way... but it could be a slippery slope in the same way.
    - stale2002 5y ago
      > Most people don't really want neutral platforms. Ok, then you if complain when stuff like this happens, then I am going to tell you "I told you so", and point out how stuff like this was a pretty inevitable result of this thinking. You just have to sit back and say "Welp, this was the risk that I took, when I refused to support neutral platforms, so I guess I have to just suck it up, because nobody is going to defend me." If you don't like this, then it is time for you to start supporting neutral platforms. Pick one. Either support neutral platforms, or accept that I am going to make fun of you, and laugh at the irony, when the absence of neutral platforms comes back to bite you.
      - ribosometronome 5y ago
        You're not exactly leading by example. We are, again, having this conversation on a platform that isn't neutral and works to keep the content high quality. It seems like your argument really boils down to "Power can be abused therefore no power should ever be used". It's kind of silly. Going back to the same points you ignored, governments criminalize murder. Do you have a problem with that? What about governments using that same power to criminalize weed? Or treat prisoners effectively as slaves? Or enforce segregation? Most folk aren't big fans of the last three but wouldn't want to live in a society where we're too afraid to stop murderers out of fear those same systems could be used to stop good folk. The only real difference is that I have considerably more control over the payment system I'm going to use than I do the government I'm going to live under. Or take it down a bunch of notches. Most platforms take measures to try and fight spam. Do you remember e-mail before spam blockers improved? It was rough! Imagine the same on here, Twitter, etc. It seems to me those services would become useless quickly. But a service that works to block that isn't neutral, they're making decisions about what they will and won't support. I find it hard to imagine that you would prefer to use sites like that, and yet, that's what you're arguing for.
Redoubts 5y ago
> I’d be interested if anyone who opposes the payment processors pressuring OnlyFans but supported the actions taken against Gab could explain how they reconcile the two positions. I think most people would reconcile them fairly easily. Do you think there’s a surprising answer to be had here?
evol262 5y ago
One provided a shelter for incitement to violence, culminating in an attack on the US Capitol. The other one is naked people. It's the difference between suing someone because they yelled "fire!" in a crowded adult theatre and being an actor on the stage of that theatre.
standardUser 5y ago
The difference, of course, is threats and violence. I don't imagine many OnlyFans models are mentioning their love of firearms in the same breathe as they mention that civilization will end if we don't establish an all-white ethnostate.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
caslon 5y ago
There is a duopoly in payment processing because it's the most regulated industry in the world. Google, Apple and Amazon are in vastly different businesses, rose to where they were based on the free market and are sustained by it, would be there with or without regulation, and will eventually be replaced. Personally I don't really care about either of these scenarios and a whole lot of the people complaining about this one are doing it for pretty obvious self-interested reasons, but you're being disingenuous by acting like these are the same thing. Visa and Mastercard are a government-enforced duopoly (with a few minor similarly-enforced exceptions). No tech company is as meaningfully.

by jwond 5y ago

ribosometronome 5y ago

Are you surprised folk agree with things that fit their morals and disagree with ones that don't? Gab was being used to promote hate, violence, and misinformation. Onlyfans is not those things. This feels akin to saying something like, "Oh, you were onboard when the government criminalized murder, how do you feel now that they're criminalizing weed?!"

jwond 5y ago
> Gab was being used to promote hate, violence, and misinformation So is every other social media site
- ribosometronome 5y ago
  Gab was created as a reaction to other social media sites trying to remove that content. They're clearly different beasts even if Facebook and Twitter don't do nearly good enough of a job at tackling it.
stale2002 5y ago
The point is that people who talk about a slippery slope were correct. The more that you let large and powerful organizations, get away with targeting groups that you don't like, the more likely that those powerful organizations are going to be able to turn the guns on you, or your favorite cause, when public opinion doesn't go your way. Neutral platforms, that don't discrimination, protects your enemies as well as your self. The slippery slope is real. The people who oppose neutral platforms have made their bed. Now we'll see if they change their mind once they have to lay in it.
- ribosometronome 5y ago
  Assuming the issue is with payment processors, it's an existing issue. The same thing happened with Patreon and has been happening with other websites selling adult content for ages. If anything, the slope that they slipped down was the one resulting in Gab's troubles. Most people don't really want neutral platforms. If you go to a restaurant and another customer is violently drunk, yelling, and really just ruining the night for everyone, we hope they get kicked out so that we can appreciate the restaurant. The person saying, "Yeah but next they're gonna come for [insert whatever thing that shouldn't result in getting kicked out]" could be right and the restaurant may cross what you think the line should be, but that doesn't mean that the restaurant was wrong to kick out the violently drunk person. Similarly, I've seen dang around on HackerNews giving folks warning about their comments not really being a great fit, because they're low-effort, out of place, etc. In general, it keeps the quality of discussion here /way/ better than you'd see on Reddit. I like that they work to keep it that way... but it could be a slippery slope in the same way.
  - stale2002 5y ago
    > Most people don't really want neutral platforms. Ok, then you if complain when stuff like this happens, then I am going to tell you "I told you so", and point out how stuff like this was a pretty inevitable result of this thinking. You just have to sit back and say "Welp, this was the risk that I took, when I refused to support neutral platforms, so I guess I have to just suck it up, because nobody is going to defend me." If you don't like this, then it is time for you to start supporting neutral platforms. Pick one. Either support neutral platforms, or accept that I am going to make fun of you, and laugh at the irony, when the absence of neutral platforms comes back to bite you.
    - ribosometronome 5y ago
      You're not exactly leading by example. We are, again, having this conversation on a platform that isn't neutral and works to keep the content high quality. It seems like your argument really boils down to "Power can be abused therefore no power should ever be used". It's kind of silly. Going back to the same points you ignored, governments criminalize murder. Do you have a problem with that? What about governments using that same power to criminalize weed? Or treat prisoners effectively as slaves? Or enforce segregation? Most folk aren't big fans of the last three but wouldn't want to live in a society where we're too afraid to stop murderers out of fear those same systems could be used to stop good folk. The only real difference is that I have considerably more control over the payment system I'm going to use than I do the government I'm going to live under. Or take it down a bunch of notches. Most platforms take measures to try and fight spam. Do you remember e-mail before spam blockers improved? It was rough! Imagine the same on here, Twitter, etc. It seems to me those services would become useless quickly. But a service that works to block that isn't neutral, they're making decisions about what they will and won't support. I find it hard to imagine that you would prefer to use sites like that, and yet, that's what you're arguing for.

Redoubts 5y ago

> I’d be interested if anyone who opposes the payment processors pressuring OnlyFans but supported the actions taken against Gab could explain how they reconcile the two positions. I think most people would reconcile them fairly easily. Do you think there’s a surprising answer to be had here?

evol262 5y ago

One provided a shelter for incitement to violence, culminating in an attack on the US Capitol. The other one is naked people. It's the difference between suing someone because they yelled "fire!" in a crowded adult theatre and being an actor on the stage of that theatre.

standardUser 5y ago

The difference, of course, is threats and violence. I don't imagine many OnlyFans models are mentioning their love of firearms in the same breathe as they mention that civilization will end if we don't establish an all-white ethnostate.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

caslon 5y ago

There is a duopoly in payment processing because it's the most regulated industry in the world. Google, Apple and Amazon are in vastly different businesses, rose to where they were based on the free market and are sustained by it, would be there with or without regulation, and will eventually be replaced. Personally I don't really care about either of these scenarios and a whole lot of the people complaining about this one are doing it for pretty obvious self-interested reasons, but you're being disingenuous by acting like these are the same thing. Visa and Mastercard are a government-enforced duopoly (with a few minor similarly-enforced exceptions). No tech company is as meaningfully.