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I guess I just don't understand how payment processing works in this domain: are you saying MasterCard is basically saying that their credit cards cannot be use

I guess I just don't understand how payment processing works in this domain: are you saying MasterCard is basically saying that their credit cards cannot be used to purchase adult services such as these?

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Mastercard (and Visa and AmEx and Discover) do not want their networks to be used by merchants selling pornography. I would think the only reason is the chargeback/fraud rates are too high in this type of business, as well as not wanting to be involved in a business where there may be a high chance of illegal content. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-14/mastercard-rewrites-rules-for-banks-backing-pornography-sellers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-14/mastercar... >The banks will now have to ensure that sellers require “clear, unambiguous and documented consent” in adult content, the payments network said in a blog post Wednesday. The firms will also be required to ensure websites document the age and verify the identity of anyone depicted in pictures and videos as well as those uploading the content. >“The banks that connect merchants to our network will need to certify that the seller of adult content has effective controls in place to monitor, block and, where necessary, take down all illegal content,” John Verdeschi, Mastercard’s senior vice president of customer engagement and performance, said in the post. Allowing merchants to sell pornography is probably not worth the hassle for the card networks.
- _moof 5y ago
  Sounds like MasterCard is in fact fine with merchants selling pornography, but the merchants aren't willing to do so on MasterCard's extremely reasonable terms.
  - Mindwipe 5y ago
    Lol, such as the people involved can't be dressed as vampires. "Extremely reasonable"
    - mijoharas 5y ago
      Have you got a reference to that? the terms that were quoted in the grandparent comment do seem extremely reasonable: >The banks will now have to ensure that sellers require “clear, unambiguous and documented consent” in adult content, the payments network said in a blog post Wednesday. The firms will also be required to ensure websites document the age and verify the identity of anyone depicted in pictures and videos as well as those uploading the content. >“The banks that connect merchants to our network will need to certify that the seller of adult content has effective controls in place to monitor, block and, where necessary, take down all illegal content,” John Verdeschi, Mastercard’s senior vice president of customer engagement and performance, said in the post. The thing I don't understand is if those quoted terms above are the rules that onlyfans is falling foul of, then wouldn't it be easier to build a tracked system for documenting consent e.t.c. rather than banning things. That would seem like a better strategy for OnlyFans since it seems like their entire business model will be in jeopardy without this. I wonder if they want to do this, and then turn around and say "we've listened to the community and we're gonna integrate this consent system instead" so it won't be treated so negatively or something?
      - Mindwipe 5y ago
        The grandparent comment is a tiny fragment of the actual rules. Mastercard's BRAM document is not publicly available I believe.
- raydev 5y ago
  I'm bothered that more people aren't upset about 2 payment providers effectively controlling all non-cash commerce. I assume we'll wake up a few years from now and say "oh, yeah, probably wasn't a good idea to let private companies get this powerful". Or maybe not.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I am upset, but not at the private companies. I am upset at politicians for not getting the ball rolling on an electronic payment method that works like cash in the interest of its citizens.
    - sneak 5y ago
      They did the opposite: they regulated into oblivion a new, non-state technology that could obsolete the current backwards system.
- IdontRememberIt 5y ago
  Actually it was the historical excuse. But today with 3DS2, etc. the fraud/complains rates are very very small. (I have had zero in years.)
hhh 5y ago
Yes. The same happened to Pornhub too.
tadfisher 5y ago
MasterCard has two customers: card issuers (banks, usually) and merchants (through payment processors like CCBill, usually). MasterCard is saying that CCBill will lose access to the MasterCard payment network if they serve customers dealing in sexually explicit content.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
microtherion 5y ago
I suspect that their aversion to adult services payments might be based less on moral qualms than on elevated levels of chargebacks with said services. "Why, honey! I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA why there is a charge for a Swedish Penis Pump on our Credit Card bill. An evil hacker must have gotten ahold of my card. I shall have the charges reversed at once!", etc.
- zelag 5y ago
  Swedish penis pump?
  - microtherion 5y ago
    I'm afraid I'm dating myself a bit here with my cultural references: https://youtu.be/Yh6kbQnOAg4?t=35 https://youtu.be/Yh6kbQnOAg4?t=35
- Mindwipe 5y ago
  > I suspect that their aversion to adult services payments might be based less on moral qualms than on elevated levels of chargebacks with said services. Mastercard demands a lot of keyword blocks that are pretty definitely too obscure to be chargeback related.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Mastercard (and Visa and AmEx and Discover) do not want their networks to be used by merchants selling pornography. I would think the only reason is the chargeback/fraud rates are too high in this type of business, as well as not wanting to be involved in a business where there may be a high chance of illegal content. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-14/mastercard-rewrites-rules-for-banks-backing-pornography-sellers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-14/mastercar... >The banks will now have to ensure that sellers require “clear, unambiguous and documented consent” in adult content, the payments network said in a blog post Wednesday. The firms will also be required to ensure websites document the age and verify the identity of anyone depicted in pictures and videos as well as those uploading the content. >“The banks that connect merchants to our network will need to certify that the seller of adult content has effective controls in place to monitor, block and, where necessary, take down all illegal content,” John Verdeschi, Mastercard’s senior vice president of customer engagement and performance, said in the post. Allowing merchants to sell pornography is probably not worth the hassle for the card networks.

_moof 5y ago
Sounds like MasterCard is in fact fine with merchants selling pornography, but the merchants aren't willing to do so on MasterCard's extremely reasonable terms.
- Mindwipe 5y ago
  Lol, such as the people involved can't be dressed as vampires. "Extremely reasonable"
  - mijoharas 5y ago
    Have you got a reference to that? the terms that were quoted in the grandparent comment do seem extremely reasonable: >The banks will now have to ensure that sellers require “clear, unambiguous and documented consent” in adult content, the payments network said in a blog post Wednesday. The firms will also be required to ensure websites document the age and verify the identity of anyone depicted in pictures and videos as well as those uploading the content. >“The banks that connect merchants to our network will need to certify that the seller of adult content has effective controls in place to monitor, block and, where necessary, take down all illegal content,” John Verdeschi, Mastercard’s senior vice president of customer engagement and performance, said in the post. The thing I don't understand is if those quoted terms above are the rules that onlyfans is falling foul of, then wouldn't it be easier to build a tracked system for documenting consent e.t.c. rather than banning things. That would seem like a better strategy for OnlyFans since it seems like their entire business model will be in jeopardy without this. I wonder if they want to do this, and then turn around and say "we've listened to the community and we're gonna integrate this consent system instead" so it won't be treated so negatively or something?
    - Mindwipe 5y ago
      The grandparent comment is a tiny fragment of the actual rules. Mastercard's BRAM document is not publicly available I believe.
raydev 5y ago
I'm bothered that more people aren't upset about 2 payment providers effectively controlling all non-cash commerce. I assume we'll wake up a few years from now and say "oh, yeah, probably wasn't a good idea to let private companies get this powerful". Or maybe not.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I am upset, but not at the private companies. I am upset at politicians for not getting the ball rolling on an electronic payment method that works like cash in the interest of its citizens.
  - sneak 5y ago
    They did the opposite: they regulated into oblivion a new, non-state technology that could obsolete the current backwards system.
IdontRememberIt 5y ago
Actually it was the historical excuse. But today with 3DS2, etc. the fraud/complains rates are very very small. (I have had zero in years.)

hhh 5y ago

Yes. The same happened to Pornhub too.

tadfisher 5y ago

MasterCard has two customers: card issuers (banks, usually) and merchants (through payment processors like CCBill, usually). MasterCard is saying that CCBill will lose access to the MasterCard payment network if they serve customers dealing in sexually explicit content.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

microtherion 5y ago

I suspect that their aversion to adult services payments might be based less on moral qualms than on elevated levels of chargebacks with said services. "Why, honey! I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA why there is a charge for a Swedish Penis Pump on our Credit Card bill. An evil hacker must have gotten ahold of my card. I shall have the charges reversed at once!", etc.

zelag 5y ago
Swedish penis pump?
- microtherion 5y ago
  I'm afraid I'm dating myself a bit here with my cultural references: https://youtu.be/Yh6kbQnOAg4?t=35 https://youtu.be/Yh6kbQnOAg4?t=35
Mindwipe 5y ago
> I suspect that their aversion to adult services payments might be based less on moral qualms than on elevated levels of chargebacks with said services. Mastercard demands a lot of keyword blocks that are pretty definitely too obscure to be chargeback related.