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This is a 26% drop in the Asian population at the High School. That is a pretty big drop in what was a purposeful policy change. If we were to replace Asian wit

This is a 26% drop in the Asian population at the High School. That is a pretty big drop in what was a purposeful policy change. If we were to replace Asian with some other ethnicity in this circumstance, where the institution decided there was too many of X, and changed policies for it to be more "equitable" I believe there would be a much larger outcry, and not just from people that support meritocracy.

dwater 5y ago
Because this piece is an op-ed, they've only told their side of the story. It is also true that the number of Black students admitted went from 6 to 33, an increase of 550%, and Hispanic went from 16 to 62, an increase of 288%.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  And further, the number of economically disadvantaged students went up by a factor of 50. It becomes difficult to argue that the equity changes only applied to specific races.
- farmerstan 5y ago
  They increased not because they deserved it, but because of their race and the change on policies. If Asians werent being specifcxally targeted but Blacks increased because their test scores increased, no one would complain. That’s what competition is all about. Everyone would celebrate their success. But stacking the deck against Asians and letting in people via lottery strictly to change the skin color statistics is abhorrent. No one cares if Asians are discriminated against, even though they deserve their place at TJ through hard work.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    > If Asians werent being specifcxally targeted but Blacks increased because their test scores increased, no one would complain. Sort of. The problem is that many people do not believe that the test scores are an accurate representation of merit or an effective way of distributing the limited enrollment slots. People take it as a given that there must be an enrollment test but that itself is a policy devised by humans rather than something handed down from heaven. > But stacking the deck against Asians and letting in people via lottery strictly to change the skin color statistics is abhorrent. How does a lottery stack the deck against Asian students? > No one cares if Asians are discriminated against, even though they deserve their place at TJ through hard work. If you want to fight to ensure that people who "deserve" TJ have access, then the solution is to largely destroy the magnet school model and replace it with co-education with GMU next door. But for many people, the limited access is the point, because it allows people to read in magazines that TJ is the best public school in the country. It isn't like prior to this change that there weren't huge numbers of qualified students turned away from TJ.
    - farmerstan 5y ago
      > How does a lottery stack the deck against Asian students? Enrollment dropped 25% for Asians. There’s nothing to argue here. People argue that the tests arent “fair” because of cultural bias. So unless you think the TJ tests were designed for Asians in mind, why is it that Asians didn’t suffer from this cultural bias but others did? Or do you think the tests were written with white and Asian culture in mind? Or maybe the idea of cultural bias in tests is bullshit since Asian students were excelling at a supposedly “white” test, and it’s really just a reflection of how hard a student is willing to study?
farmerstan 5y ago
This just reinforces the idea that Asians are “other”. They don’t matter when it comes to diversity, all that matters are Blacks and Latinos. Even though in places like NYC, Asians are indisputably the poorest demographic.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  The number of economically disadvantaged admits went up by 50x after the policy change. If you are concerned about economically disadvantaged students having access to accelerated education, this change was a win.
  - farmerstan 5y ago
    At the expense of Asians because Asians are always considered foreigners not minorities. Blacks and Whites only think of Blacks and Whites as Americans. Asians are called “Chinese”. So no wonder when the school board sees 75% “Chinese” at TJ they think it’s unAmerican and want to “fix” it.
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      > At the expense of Asians because Asians are always considered foreigners not minorities. There are economically disadvantaged asian american students. They benefit greatly from the changes that limit dependence on test prep. > Asians are called “Chinese”. So no wonder when the school board sees 75% “Chinese” at TJ they think it’s unAmerican and want to “fix” it. You'll find that a lot of people on the school board, or who are active in this discussion on the side of the change, are themselves south and east asian. The narrative that this is all white people trying to hold asian americans back is just silly.
      - anthony_d 5y ago
        > There are economically disadvantaged asian american students. They benefit greatly from the changes that limit dependence on test prep. I'm not sure how to take this seriously. There are economically disadvantaged Asian students, but there is no evidence this change helped them. We have empirical evidence the change increased Black, Latino and White student counts; we also have evidence it reduced Asian student counts. > You'll find that a lot of people on the school board, or who are active in this discussion on the side of the change, are themselves south and east asian. That's not what I've found. Everything about the school looks extremely White. Being 'active in this discussion' is irrelevant and there is no data to support your assertion anyway. > The narrative that this is all white people trying to hold asian americans back is just silly. Your narrative that replacing Asian students with poor Black, Latino and White students is somehow good also seems a bit silly. It's still discrimination even with your spin.

dwater 5y ago

Because this piece is an op-ed, they've only told their side of the story. It is also true that the number of Black students admitted went from 6 to 33, an increase of 550%, and Hispanic went from 16 to 62, an increase of 288%.

UncleMeat 5y ago
And further, the number of economically disadvantaged students went up by a factor of 50. It becomes difficult to argue that the equity changes only applied to specific races.
farmerstan 5y ago
They increased not because they deserved it, but because of their race and the change on policies. If Asians werent being specifcxally targeted but Blacks increased because their test scores increased, no one would complain. That’s what competition is all about. Everyone would celebrate their success. But stacking the deck against Asians and letting in people via lottery strictly to change the skin color statistics is abhorrent. No one cares if Asians are discriminated against, even though they deserve their place at TJ through hard work.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  > If Asians werent being specifcxally targeted but Blacks increased because their test scores increased, no one would complain. Sort of. The problem is that many people do not believe that the test scores are an accurate representation of merit or an effective way of distributing the limited enrollment slots. People take it as a given that there must be an enrollment test but that itself is a policy devised by humans rather than something handed down from heaven. > But stacking the deck against Asians and letting in people via lottery strictly to change the skin color statistics is abhorrent. How does a lottery stack the deck against Asian students? > No one cares if Asians are discriminated against, even though they deserve their place at TJ through hard work. If you want to fight to ensure that people who "deserve" TJ have access, then the solution is to largely destroy the magnet school model and replace it with co-education with GMU next door. But for many people, the limited access is the point, because it allows people to read in magazines that TJ is the best public school in the country. It isn't like prior to this change that there weren't huge numbers of qualified students turned away from TJ.
  - farmerstan 5y ago
    > How does a lottery stack the deck against Asian students? Enrollment dropped 25% for Asians. There’s nothing to argue here. People argue that the tests arent “fair” because of cultural bias. So unless you think the TJ tests were designed for Asians in mind, why is it that Asians didn’t suffer from this cultural bias but others did? Or do you think the tests were written with white and Asian culture in mind? Or maybe the idea of cultural bias in tests is bullshit since Asian students were excelling at a supposedly “white” test, and it’s really just a reflection of how hard a student is willing to study?

farmerstan 5y ago

This just reinforces the idea that Asians are “other”. They don’t matter when it comes to diversity, all that matters are Blacks and Latinos. Even though in places like NYC, Asians are indisputably the poorest demographic.

UncleMeat 5y ago
The number of economically disadvantaged admits went up by 50x after the policy change. If you are concerned about economically disadvantaged students having access to accelerated education, this change was a win.
- farmerstan 5y ago
  At the expense of Asians because Asians are always considered foreigners not minorities. Blacks and Whites only think of Blacks and Whites as Americans. Asians are called “Chinese”. So no wonder when the school board sees 75% “Chinese” at TJ they think it’s unAmerican and want to “fix” it.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    > At the expense of Asians because Asians are always considered foreigners not minorities. There are economically disadvantaged asian american students. They benefit greatly from the changes that limit dependence on test prep. > Asians are called “Chinese”. So no wonder when the school board sees 75% “Chinese” at TJ they think it’s unAmerican and want to “fix” it. You'll find that a lot of people on the school board, or who are active in this discussion on the side of the change, are themselves south and east asian. The narrative that this is all white people trying to hold asian americans back is just silly.
    - anthony_d 5y ago
      > There are economically disadvantaged asian american students. They benefit greatly from the changes that limit dependence on test prep. I'm not sure how to take this seriously. There are economically disadvantaged Asian students, but there is no evidence this change helped them. We have empirical evidence the change increased Black, Latino and White student counts; we also have evidence it reduced Asian student counts. > You'll find that a lot of people on the school board, or who are active in this discussion on the side of the change, are themselves south and east asian. That's not what I've found. Everything about the school looks extremely White. Being 'active in this discussion' is irrelevant and there is no data to support your assertion anyway. > The narrative that this is all white people trying to hold asian americans back is just silly. Your narrative that replacing Asian students with poor Black, Latino and White students is somehow good also seems a bit silly. It's still discrimination even with your spin.