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Ritalin and similar medications cause brain to focus on benefits of work (2020)
- eastendguy 5y agoHas anyone "here" ever used Ritalin as "study aid" (as suggested in the article)? If so, why and how did it work for you?
- haskellandchill 5y agoyes it's great. get work done and lose some weight.
- dwater 5y agoMore effective than caffeine but not as effective as adderall, with the unwanted speedy feeling side effects also being in between.
- standardUser 5y agoI've used all kinds of legal and illegal "speed" for studying and for work and yes, it is usually extremely effective. The biggest benefit is improved focus and concentration, and it can also help you stay up late (or all night).
- tsjq 5y agoand if one wants to stop studying and go sleep 11pm to 6am, does the med cause problems with sleep ?
- standardUser 5y agoYes, a lot of these drugs make it very hard to sleep for 3-12 hours (depending on the drug and dose).
- thrower123 5y agoBetter question might be whether anyone "here" _hasn't_ used some form of amphetamines as a nootropic.
- cacozen 5y agoI'm not a scientist, so I might be missing some nuance, but it strikes me that the experiment could indicate a million other things that are not "Ritalin causes the brain to focus on benefits of work rather than its costs". For all I know it could mean the person gets to believe more in their capacity to do the hard tasks. Or it could mean that the person feels less distracted and more willing to engage. Or many other things... Am I missing something?
- cpncrunch 5y agoNo, you're absolutely right. Studies like this need to be taken with a grain of salt. Also, until it is replicated, we don't know if there is anything happening here at all.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- filoleg 5y agoI think your hypothesis about confidence in the last paragraph is right on the mark. Iirc there were studies done trying to assess the same thing with regards to Adderall (aka amphetamine salts, which is used for adhd similarly to Ritalin). The researchers came to that exact same conclusion, that the drug didn’t actually make people smarter, but it gave them an illusion of being more capable, and they ended up performing better due to confidence.[0] 0. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376871617302983 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03768...
- jefftechentin 5y agoYeah these findings remind me of a passage from the book "Talent Is Overrated". Thesis of the book is that world class talent is mostly due to hard work over innate ability. He supposes that one way that children develop drives in different directions is some identification of ability (even when it is not there really) in some domain leads adults to heap praise on them for that particular talent, causing a virtuous cycle of work and praise. You can see this in parents who marvel at how great their children are at x, seems to be how kids are pushed. If kids are designed to be pushed to develop their skill sets by the dopamine inducing praise it could be that these drugs work because they tap into that pathway.
- criticaltinker 5y agoThe OP mentions Adderall but the cited study only evaluates Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and Sulpiride (Dogmatil). Adderall and Ritalin can be addictive and are widely abused. Many studies show that these drugs are relatively 'safe', but we are only beginning to understand the long-term effects on the brain from chronic abuse [2][3]. To anyone out there who is needlessly abusing these drugs, it would be prudent of you to look for alternative and natural ways to massage your mind into a state that is conducive to productive work. Exercise, diet, and sleep are incredibly important. > Higher dopamine synthesis capacity in the caudate nucleus was associated with greater willingness to allocate cognitive effort. In addition, methylphenidate and sulpiride increased subjective values and motivation to work specifically for people with low dopamine synthesis capacity. > Collectively, our results support that striatal dopamine enhances motivation for cognitive effort by amplifying the effects of benefits versus costs attended early in a decision. [1] Dopamine promotes cognitive effort by biasing the benefits versus costs of cognitive work https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6484/1362 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6484/1362 [2] Acute and long-term effects of adolescent methylphenidate on decision-making and dopamine receptor mRNA expression in the orbitofrontal cortex https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5404501/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5404501/ [3] Chronic methylphenidate treatment during adolescence has long-term effects on monoaminergic function https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0269881118805494 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/026988111880549...
- fred_is_fred 5y agoThe people who really need these and have tried everything else or struggled for years with ADHD really find the "you are just going to be an addict, have you tried meditation" approach patronizing.
- criticaltinker 5y agoYeah I agree that some people genuinely need these drugs and didn't intend to imply otherwise - I reworded my statement to be more clear.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- MrGuts 5y agoHR: "Oh, let's start passing out free Ritalin pills."
- thebean11 5y agoI mean, there's an episode of Mad Men where a doctor comes in and shoots everyone up with "vitamins", implied to be some stimulant/amphetamine. Not sure how accurate that is.
- haskellandchill 5y agolook up jfk and doctor feelgood: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Jacobson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Jacobson
- reidjs 5y agoWell, most companies already serve free coffee
- JohnWhigham 5y agoCaffeine and methylphenidate are in completely different leagues.
- haskellandchill 5y agoI literally worked at a startup where this happened.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- traviscj 5y agoReally interesting. I've been on Adderall for almost 10 years and am constantly accused of being overly optimistic, which sounds a lot like the "the brain to fix its attention on the benefits, rather than the costs, of completing difficult tasks." from the first paragraph.
- chemeng 5y agoIf it's in relation to scoping work or how long it will take to do something, it may be the "time blindness" that typically accompanies ADHD. This typically leads to optimistic estimates of how much work can get done within a certain timeframe.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 5y agoAre you being accused of optimism in hindsight or by naysayers in advance before attempting something? The answer matters. Sometimes accusations of optimism are a defense mechanism from lazy people. Or it could be good feedback that your projects are over-scoped.
- chiefalchemist 5y agoInteresting. But Devil's Advocate here. Is this good news? This study seems to say that these drugs don't change how you think (i.e., somehow improving the effectiveness of the thought process) but what to think about; what's most important, or not. Not to get a tin foil hat-y, but it easy to see a darkside to this, as well as there being those who would seek to exploit it. But for therapeutic applications it sounds hopeful.
- Mordisquitos 5y ago> This study seems to say that these drugs don't change how you think (i.e., somehow improving the effectiveness of the thought process) but what to think about; what's most important, or not. Consider that most people who are diagnosed with ADHD (especially if it was in adulthood) are well aware on the metacognitive level that they should think in terms of the benefits of work and its importance, and they do want to. Their problem is a difficulty to actively decide to think in those terms when it truly matters, in practical day-to-day life. So stimulants do indeed change how they think, improving the effectiveness of their desired thought process.
- chiefalchemist 5y agoI'm not referencing this application. I'm questioning the new series of meds that enables "have more empathy" or "have less empathy" and so on. And if combined with other nudge-y influences, then what? This is great for ADHD and such but perhaps we're within spitting of distance of things less benign?
- Ancapistani 5y ago> This study seems to say that these drugs don't change how you think (i.e., somehow improving the effectiveness of the thought process) but what to think about; what's most important, or not. FWIW, this is a fairly accurate description of my experience with ADHD. It’s not that I have trouble focusing; quite the opposite, I can focus for hours on the smallest detail. The problem is that without medication I don’t get to choose what that detail _is_. I could end up (and _have_ ended up) spending countless hours on inconsequential stuff because I can’t get it off my mind otherwise while I watch my life fall apart around me, unable to do a thing about it.
- ramesh31 5y agoSo we should all be on pharmaceutical grade meth?
- fzzzy 5y agoAdderall is just amphetamene, not methamphetamene. And the study doesn't draw any conclusions about amphetamine.
- crayaz 5y agoMethylphenidate is not meth.
- ramesh31 5y ago>Methylphenidate is not meth. Well sure. In the same way that fentanyl is not heroin.
- 0_gravitas 5y agoor in the way that oxygen is not water...
- speed_spread 5y agoFentanyl and Heroin are both in the family of opioids, they have the same effect but have different potency. Methylphenidate and Amphetamines are in totally different families of stimulants.
- aNoob7000 5y agoI've always thought it would be wonderful if everyone were forced to wear colorful patches for all the medication and legal/illegal substances they are taking to cope with life and illness. This way we could look at our athletes, business leaders, politicians, friends, and everyone else and see all the things they consume to get things done.
- wpasc 5y agoWe could attempt to foster a culture where people feel free to share their experiences, difficulties, and tools that help them meet their challenges. Forced to wear colorful patches for medications? I have a couple of points of disagreement..
- cacozen 5y agoWhy stop there? Let’s force people to sit on different places or use different doors based on arbitrary shit we come up with. Oh look, you just invented apartheid again!
- hypertele-Xii 5y agoThe book Martians, Go Home [1] explores this dilemma via a similar mechanism: Little omniscient alien tricksters who spill everyone's secrets and embarrasments. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martians,_Go_Home https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martians,_Go_Home
- kayodelycaon 5y agoI'd rather not be outed as bipolar to the entire world. Every time you see bipolar people in media, it is not good. Things go a lot better if people get to know me as me before they find out just how much I struggle with day to day. I don't want to be defined by my illness.
- mthoms 5y agoIn regards to legal medications, how would the information those "patches" convey be useful without any context?
- exolymph 5y ago
- thedudeabides5 5y agoOk, what percentage of bay area engineers do we think are currently on ADHD meds?
- beefman 5y agoPaper (open access): https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6484/1362 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6484/1362
- tsjq 5y agoperhaps related topic : "1 in 5 medical researchers reports pressure from funders to change study results" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28241427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28241427