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The concerns you express aren't noticable or bothersome except to a small percentage of enthusiasts. Teslas are mechanically far more reliable and require less

The concerns you express aren't noticable or bothersome except to a small percentage of enthusiasts. Teslas are mechanically far more reliable and require less maintenance that other cars.

altcognito 5y ago
Most people would consider the ability to put together the stuff you do see as a pretty good indicator of your ability to put together the stuff you can’t see.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
They have not even been out long enough to make that claim. Especially when comparing to Toyota.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >Especially when comparing to Toyota. Toyota been saying "don't worry guys, we fixed the rust issues, the new ones won't be rusting out" every year since 1985 and running a more or less rolling recall since the 00s. Or was that not the implication of your comparison? Teslas will last a long time because the most important indicator of vehicle reliability is one that they share more or less 1:1 with Toyota, customers who who put very easy miles on vehicles and dutifully maintain them. That said, I fully agree that we have nowhere near the length of data set we need to know how Teslas will fare in terms of reliability and longevity (not the same thing) after adjusting for how they are used.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    > Or was that not the implication of your comparison? The implication of my post is Toyota operates on a different scale than Tesla, and due to insufficient time having passed since the advent of Tesla, a claim cannot yet be made. I referenced Toyota because of its objectively highly ranked reliability based on resale price and famously low maintenance costs.
  - itsoktocry 5y ago
    >share more or less 1:1 with Toyota, customers who who put very easy miles on vehicles Like all the Toyota trucks used in military operations around the world? Those kind of "easy miles"? Comparing these two companies, with vastly different scales of operation, is kind of silly.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      <rolls eyes> The edge between manufacturers in any given measurable attribute of vehicle performance is far, far smaller than a bunch of screeching fanboys on the internet would have you believe. If it weren't you'd see far less diversity of vehicles on the road. The humvee is also used by militaries all around the world. It's not known for particularly great reliability. Militaries have a much difference set of objectives when it comes to labor vs supply chain complexity vs cost than civilian entities and individuals do. Poor countries in Africa and the middle east use Toyotas a lot for the same reason they still use 7.62 intermediate cartridges a lot. It's what they have, it's what their supply chains are tuned for. It does the job they need, not necessarily with maximal efficiency but well enough they can't justify the cost of switching. Meanwhile in the civilian market Toyotas cost more, don't do good incentives/rebates and financing is more limited. This drives people on a budget to other brands. This means Toyotas wind up in the hands of people who treat them proportionally nicer. A Tacoma rolls off the lot and into an upscale garage. A Colorado rolls off the dealer lot and into a commercial fleet where it will be driven by a bunch of people who aren't paid enough to care. A Camry will have one ass in one seat for the first 100k and it will go from home to work and home to work. An Altima will spend its first 100k dragging a family of four all of the places they need to go. A Sienna's first owner will go to home Depot, buy 3000lb of pavers and rent the truck to drive it home. A Town and Country's first owner will put that in the van without thinking twice. See what I'm getting at here? Being expensive up front means that only people who can afford to be nice to things get their hands on them, at least initially, that means the vehicles rack up more miles and years before they see hard use. Any vehicle not fundamentally flawed to begin with can look reliable in the hands of these people. I can present other examples of this if Toyota is too emotional of a topic for people to discuss. Also it should go without saying that we're talking in broad generalizations here. I do agree with you that the scale difference between Tesla and Toyota is massive and comparison between them is silly.
- space_rock 5y ago
  You're talking to the parent comment that is making early claims about quality? Oh ok it's only allowed to making negative claims about Tesla
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    > Oh ok it's only allowed to making negative claims about Tesla I do not understand what this means. But I am simply stating that the data for ICE vehicles is far longer and the dataset larger, especially for Toyota and other reputable brands, to make a conclusive claim that Tesla’s reliability (and even maintenance) is less over the whole life of the vehicle. Although I do not doubt that it is possible for electric vehicles to achieve this claim, and maybe Tesla already has.
papercrane 5y ago
The data doesn't bear that out. Tesla's have consistently ranked near the bottom in reliability surveys and indexes. They're amazing cars, but they've got a long way to go on the build quality and reliability measures.
hownottowrite 5y ago
I guess you’ve never owned a car made by a car company before.
oblio 5y ago
If anything, Teslas are bought by enthusiasts. Tech entusiasts, not car enthusiasts, but enthusiasts nonetheless. Regular people definitely care how well their cars are put together, right after they care about the car's 1) price and 2) look.

The concerns you express aren't noticable or bothersome except to a small percentage of enthusiasts. Teslas are mechanically far more reliable and require less maintenance that other cars.

altcognito 5y ago

Most people would consider the ability to put together the stuff you do see as a pretty good indicator of your ability to put together the stuff you can’t see.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

They have not even been out long enough to make that claim. Especially when comparing to Toyota.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>Especially when comparing to Toyota. Toyota been saying "don't worry guys, we fixed the rust issues, the new ones won't be rusting out" every year since 1985 and running a more or less rolling recall since the 00s. Or was that not the implication of your comparison? Teslas will last a long time because the most important indicator of vehicle reliability is one that they share more or less 1:1 with Toyota, customers who who put very easy miles on vehicles and dutifully maintain them. That said, I fully agree that we have nowhere near the length of data set we need to know how Teslas will fare in terms of reliability and longevity (not the same thing) after adjusting for how they are used.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > Or was that not the implication of your comparison? The implication of my post is Toyota operates on a different scale than Tesla, and due to insufficient time having passed since the advent of Tesla, a claim cannot yet be made. I referenced Toyota because of its objectively highly ranked reliability based on resale price and famously low maintenance costs.
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  >share more or less 1:1 with Toyota, customers who who put very easy miles on vehicles Like all the Toyota trucks used in military operations around the world? Those kind of "easy miles"? Comparing these two companies, with vastly different scales of operation, is kind of silly.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    <rolls eyes> The edge between manufacturers in any given measurable attribute of vehicle performance is far, far smaller than a bunch of screeching fanboys on the internet would have you believe. If it weren't you'd see far less diversity of vehicles on the road. The humvee is also used by militaries all around the world. It's not known for particularly great reliability. Militaries have a much difference set of objectives when it comes to labor vs supply chain complexity vs cost than civilian entities and individuals do. Poor countries in Africa and the middle east use Toyotas a lot for the same reason they still use 7.62 intermediate cartridges a lot. It's what they have, it's what their supply chains are tuned for. It does the job they need, not necessarily with maximal efficiency but well enough they can't justify the cost of switching. Meanwhile in the civilian market Toyotas cost more, don't do good incentives/rebates and financing is more limited. This drives people on a budget to other brands. This means Toyotas wind up in the hands of people who treat them proportionally nicer. A Tacoma rolls off the lot and into an upscale garage. A Colorado rolls off the dealer lot and into a commercial fleet where it will be driven by a bunch of people who aren't paid enough to care. A Camry will have one ass in one seat for the first 100k and it will go from home to work and home to work. An Altima will spend its first 100k dragging a family of four all of the places they need to go. A Sienna's first owner will go to home Depot, buy 3000lb of pavers and rent the truck to drive it home. A Town and Country's first owner will put that in the van without thinking twice. See what I'm getting at here? Being expensive up front means that only people who can afford to be nice to things get their hands on them, at least initially, that means the vehicles rack up more miles and years before they see hard use. Any vehicle not fundamentally flawed to begin with can look reliable in the hands of these people. I can present other examples of this if Toyota is too emotional of a topic for people to discuss. Also it should go without saying that we're talking in broad generalizations here. I do agree with you that the scale difference between Tesla and Toyota is massive and comparison between them is silly.
space_rock 5y ago
You're talking to the parent comment that is making early claims about quality? Oh ok it's only allowed to making negative claims about Tesla
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > Oh ok it's only allowed to making negative claims about Tesla I do not understand what this means. But I am simply stating that the data for ICE vehicles is far longer and the dataset larger, especially for Toyota and other reputable brands, to make a conclusive claim that Tesla’s reliability (and even maintenance) is less over the whole life of the vehicle. Although I do not doubt that it is possible for electric vehicles to achieve this claim, and maybe Tesla already has.

papercrane 5y ago

The data doesn't bear that out. Tesla's have consistently ranked near the bottom in reliability surveys and indexes. They're amazing cars, but they've got a long way to go on the build quality and reliability measures.

hownottowrite 5y ago

I guess you’ve never owned a car made by a car company before.

oblio 5y ago

If anything, Teslas are bought by enthusiasts. Tech entusiasts, not car enthusiasts, but enthusiasts nonetheless. Regular people definitely care how well their cars are put together, right after they care about the car's 1) price and 2) look.