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The article (and others about this topic) indicate that the chip shortage isn't just a static. They all claim that chip and other supply chains (all based on So

The article (and others about this topic) indicate that the chip shortage isn't just a static. They all claim that chip and other supply chains (all based on South East Asian) are all under new pressure from delta strain spread. In fact, I wonder how much of this really is chip supply vs general supply. Most articles on this open with headlines about chip supply, but then contains quotes from Toyota about "supply" and "parts" in general.

ruuda 5y ago
Yeah, this also makes no sense to me: > The Covid pandemic boosted demand for appliances that use chips, such as phones, TVs and games consoles. SOCs in phones and game consoles are produced on very different processes than chips used in cars, no? Cars don't need the smallest dies or most energy-efficient chips. These industries are not competing for the same capacity. Or am I missing something?
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  modern car entertainment systems often use some of the same parts as tvs/game systems/pcs etc perhaps the engine ECU is not the chip that is in low supply
- detaro 5y ago
  They certainly overlap. SoCs aren't the only chips in game consoles or other devices, different kinds of chip production have shared supply chains that themselves are struggling, SoCs used in cars aren't necessarily that different from the ones in other appliances (e.g. NVidia Tegra X1 is used both in the Nintendo Switch and some cars, and probably a pile of other things) ...
- petre 5y ago
  > SOCs in phones and game consoles are produced on very different processes than chips used in cars, no? Yes, some of them are different. Consumer chips are not industrial norm, they have narrower environmental operating ranges. The foundries producing automotive chips shifted production to consumer chips during the lockdowns, as the auto production lines were on hold. This caused supply chain disruptions. Add to that US > China IP export bans and you have a black swan event.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Not everything is a purpose built CPU, GPU or SoC on cutting edge nodes. There are many general purpose ICs that are boring and ubiquitous: Display drivers, power conversion, amplifiers, microcontrollers, etc.
  - Breza 5y ago
    Agreed. If you move far enough up the supply chain, you'll find the same components being used in many different types of devices.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- fouric 5y ago
  Hypothesis: there's a correlation between shortage of chips made with cutting-edge processes and chips that are not, because a lot of them are made by the same companies (and the supply-chain issues are impacting companies not just product lines). For instance, in addition to having the bleeding-edge 5nm node, TSMC has a lot of larger nodes and specialty non-digital-CPU nodes, too[1]. [1] https://techtaiwan.com/20210816/tsmc-speciality-technology/ https://techtaiwan.com/20210816/tsmc-speciality-technology/
wallaBBB 5y ago
Much of the ECUs OEM are purchasing from Tier 1 suppliers (Denso for example - a Toyota spinoff) who are directly hit by IC shortage, so that's why they are talking about overall supply. Also Japanese OEMs and suppliers tend to favor ICs from Renesas, and Renesas has been hit particularly hard this year [1]. [1] https://www.renesas.com/us/en/about/press-room/notice-regarding-semiconductor-manufacturing-factory-naka-factory-fire https://www.renesas.com/us/en/about/press-room/notice-regard...
technothrasher 5y ago
I can't speak for Toyota, but for my own electronics manufacturing business its definitely a chip specific shortage. We don't really have huge problems getting most stuff, but digital ICs are more and more just simply unobtainium, with vague lead times of 1-2 years.
creeble 5y ago
Highly anecdotal, but I spoke to Bilstein about some seemingly unobtainium shocks yesterday. Pre-pandemic these part numbers were common as dirt. They said their sales were up 50-60% over the last 18 mos, and that raw materials supply is down by a similar margin. These are shock absorbers, not chips or toilet paper. It seems like we're seeing the delayed effect on supply chains over the pandemic. There is surely no value in hoarding shock absorbers, and if distributors were the hoarders, they seem to just be sitting on them, not raising prices.

ruuda 5y ago

Yeah, this also makes no sense to me: > The Covid pandemic boosted demand for appliances that use chips, such as phones, TVs and games consoles. SOCs in phones and game consoles are produced on very different processes than chips used in cars, no? Cars don't need the smallest dies or most energy-efficient chips. These industries are not competing for the same capacity. Or am I missing something?

gameswithgo 5y ago
modern car entertainment systems often use some of the same parts as tvs/game systems/pcs etc perhaps the engine ECU is not the chip that is in low supply
detaro 5y ago
They certainly overlap. SoCs aren't the only chips in game consoles or other devices, different kinds of chip production have shared supply chains that themselves are struggling, SoCs used in cars aren't necessarily that different from the ones in other appliances (e.g. NVidia Tegra X1 is used both in the Nintendo Switch and some cars, and probably a pile of other things) ...
petre 5y ago
> SOCs in phones and game consoles are produced on very different processes than chips used in cars, no? Yes, some of them are different. Consumer chips are not industrial norm, they have narrower environmental operating ranges. The foundries producing automotive chips shifted production to consumer chips during the lockdowns, as the auto production lines were on hold. This caused supply chain disruptions. Add to that US > China IP export bans and you have a black swan event.
kube-system 5y ago
Not everything is a purpose built CPU, GPU or SoC on cutting edge nodes. There are many general purpose ICs that are boring and ubiquitous: Display drivers, power conversion, amplifiers, microcontrollers, etc.
- Breza 5y ago
  Agreed. If you move far enough up the supply chain, you'll find the same components being used in many different types of devices.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fouric 5y ago
Hypothesis: there's a correlation between shortage of chips made with cutting-edge processes and chips that are not, because a lot of them are made by the same companies (and the supply-chain issues are impacting companies not just product lines). For instance, in addition to having the bleeding-edge 5nm node, TSMC has a lot of larger nodes and specialty non-digital-CPU nodes, too[1]. [1] https://techtaiwan.com/20210816/tsmc-speciality-technology/ https://techtaiwan.com/20210816/tsmc-speciality-technology/

wallaBBB 5y ago

Much of the ECUs OEM are purchasing from Tier 1 suppliers (Denso for example - a Toyota spinoff) who are directly hit by IC shortage, so that's why they are talking about overall supply. Also Japanese OEMs and suppliers tend to favor ICs from Renesas, and Renesas has been hit particularly hard this year [1]. [1] https://www.renesas.com/us/en/about/press-room/notice-regarding-semiconductor-manufacturing-factory-naka-factory-fire https://www.renesas.com/us/en/about/press-room/notice-regard...

technothrasher 5y ago

I can't speak for Toyota, but for my own electronics manufacturing business its definitely a chip specific shortage. We don't really have huge problems getting most stuff, but digital ICs are more and more just simply unobtainium, with vague lead times of 1-2 years.

creeble 5y ago

Highly anecdotal, but I spoke to Bilstein about some seemingly unobtainium shocks yesterday. Pre-pandemic these part numbers were common as dirt. They said their sales were up 50-60% over the last 18 mos, and that raw materials supply is down by a similar margin. These are shock absorbers, not chips or toilet paper. It seems like we're seeing the delayed effect on supply chains over the pandemic. There is surely no value in hoarding shock absorbers, and if distributors were the hoarders, they seem to just be sitting on them, not raising prices.