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> in April 2019, Chief Executive Elon Musk said that by mid-2020 Tesla (TSLA.O) would have over a million self-driving vehicles where riders "could go to sleep"

> in April 2019, Chief Executive Elon Musk said that by mid-2020 Tesla (TSLA.O) would have over a million self-driving vehicles where riders "could go to sleep" during a trip. This was a lie. It wasn't a mistake, or a "complicated and contradictory view". It was something that was clearly false, said by someone in the best possible position to know that it was false. Journalism that tries to soften that is just indirect soft-touch PR. Despite the article mentioning multiple times that Tesla has "walked back" similar claims - something that happens so frequently that it can't really be omitted - the overall tone of the article is still far too accepting of Tesla's overall narrative.

criticaltinker 5y ago
FWIW I agree with your point here. But to play devils advocate, is it possible to prove that he knew it was false? It seems unlikely to me, and that is the crux of the issue - how can we hold people accountable (for misleading consumers, investors, etc) unless we have definitive proof that they knew the claims to be false? Not trying to defend Musk here, just pointing out the philosophical and legal challenges of preventing stuff like this in the future. I don't really have any good answers - maybe we should allow law enforcement to search emails and other communications to look for evidence of explicit and intentional deceit in high profile cases like this.
- Peritract 5y ago
  It's definitely possible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he knew; he has access to all the relevant information, is the 'product architect' for Tesla, and presents himself successfully as knowledgeable on this topic. Either he lied deliberately, or he deliberately chose to ignore all relevant information to his work and field as a whole and still make the claim (even more dishonest, and would make many of his other, seemingly innocuous claims also lies). There's no other option that holds together. This was not an understandable mistake or oversight. It's not something he could have genuinely believed. It's a wild, wild claim that is obviously nonsense to anyone with even a little knowledge of this field, similar to his claim about language becoming obsolete [1]. As much as we know anything at all, we know that Elon Musk deliberately made this claim in the knowledge that it was false. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/elon-musk-joe-rogan-podcast-language-neuralink-grimes-baby-a9506451.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne...
- sidibe 5y ago
  www.tesla.com/autopilot has a very obvious lie for the last few years that everyone involved has known was false from the beginning. The video starts out saying that there is only someone in the drivers seat legal purposes
  - deleted 5y ago
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criticaltinker 5y ago

FWIW I agree with your point here. But to play devils advocate, is it possible to prove that he knew it was false? It seems unlikely to me, and that is the crux of the issue - how can we hold people accountable (for misleading consumers, investors, etc) unless we have definitive proof that they knew the claims to be false? Not trying to defend Musk here, just pointing out the philosophical and legal challenges of preventing stuff like this in the future. I don't really have any good answers - maybe we should allow law enforcement to search emails and other communications to look for evidence of explicit and intentional deceit in high profile cases like this.

Peritract 5y ago
It's definitely possible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he knew; he has access to all the relevant information, is the 'product architect' for Tesla, and presents himself successfully as knowledgeable on this topic. Either he lied deliberately, or he deliberately chose to ignore all relevant information to his work and field as a whole and still make the claim (even more dishonest, and would make many of his other, seemingly innocuous claims also lies). There's no other option that holds together. This was not an understandable mistake or oversight. It's not something he could have genuinely believed. It's a wild, wild claim that is obviously nonsense to anyone with even a little knowledge of this field, similar to his claim about language becoming obsolete [1]. As much as we know anything at all, we know that Elon Musk deliberately made this claim in the knowledge that it was false. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/elon-musk-joe-rogan-podcast-language-neuralink-grimes-baby-a9506451.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne...
sidibe 5y ago
www.tesla.com/autopilot has a very obvious lie for the last few years that everyone involved has known was false from the beginning. The video starts out saying that there is only someone in the drivers seat legal purposes
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]