4 ms·

Isn't there a small difference between these? A) They scan everything I have released to google photos B) They scan everything that exists on my device Psychol

Isn't there a small difference between these? A) They scan everything I have released to google photos B) They scan everything that exists on my device Psychologically, you'll feel a difference in what you accept between the two, I think

shapefrog 5y ago
> B) They scan everything that exists on my device No ... They scan everything that I have released to apple photos that exists on my device. Same scan - different place.
- __blockcipher__ 5y ago
  The issue is that as soon as you set that precedent, it’s only a matter of time before it extends beyond iCloud. That’s the problem with doing any device-level scanning. This is dystopian and scary. And yes I understand the technology in its current iteration. The current form has problems (weaponizing collisions etc) but the real issue comes with future developments.
  - robertoandred 5y ago
    Was scanning server side not a precedent?
    - Multicomp 5y ago
      It was but it was one we were not in a position to resist at the time. Surrendered to almighty convenience. But here appears to be beyond the pale such that people are saying "this far, no farther!"
    - __blockcipher__ 5y ago
      It set the precedent for scanning server side. Which I don’t like but there’s really no way to avoid it anyway. Now we have clientside scanning, and actually being led by the [note the scare quotes] “pro-privacy” two ton gorilla. It’s a whole different ballgame.
    - shapefrog 5y ago
      Furthermore, was uploading (backing up) the entire contents of your phone to a server to be freely scaned and distributed (with warrant of course) server side not also a precedent? Must have been absloutely nuts round here back in 2011 when they announced the particular slippery slope that is iCloud backup.
  - shapefrog 5y ago
    > They scan everything that exists on my device I get to select the issue and it was in response to the previous claim that 'they' are scanning everything that exists on the device right now. A year ago this was a possible 'future development'. 10 years from now I could be living on Mars. This is all hypothetical.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      > This is all hypothetical. Exactly. However, people don't seem to have an issue when hypothesizing that CSAM detection is good actually, because Apple might implement E2EE, despite no evidence of such intentions. For some reason, though, people take issue when others hypothesize that CSAM detection is bad actually, because Apple might expand it further and violate users' privacy even more. And there's actually precedent for this hypothesis, given Apple's actions here and their own words[1]: > This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. These efforts will evolve and expand over time. [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/ https://www.apple.com/child-safety/
gmueckl 5y ago
Isn't the default on Android these days that all images get uploaded ("backed up") to Photos? And how many users are actually altering defaults?
whoknowswhat11 5y ago
As has been repeated over and over, apple only scans photos that are part if icloud photos (ie, uploaded). Don't want your photo's scanned, don't sync them to icloud. Seriously! Please include the actual system when discussing this system, not your bogeyman system. "To help address this, new technology in iOS and iPadOS* will allow Apple to detect known CSAM images stored in iCloud Photos." To increase privacy - they perform the scan on device prior to upload.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  As has been repeated over and over, apple only scans photos that are part if icloud photos (ie, uploaded). "for now" Which is the part most people have a problem with -- they say that they are only scanning iCloud uploads now, but it's simple extension of the scanner to scan all files. I don't care if Apple scans my iCloud uploads on iCloud servers, I don't want them scanning photos on my device.
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    I will believe them if they put their money where their mouth is: as a clause to iOS user agreement saying that if they ever use they ever use this functionality for anything other than CSAM or on anything other than iCloud photos, ever person who was subjected to this scan will be paid 100 million dollars by Apple. I will believe them if they put this clause in, and I know when they have changed their plans when they remove the clause. No more pinky swears, let's add some stakes for breaking the promise.
    - Johnny555 5y ago
      I'd be satisfied with a money back guarantee -- if they change the policy then I can return the phone for a full refund.
    - kcb 5y ago
      Until one day a box pops up. It says "We've updated our terms. See this 10,000 line document here. Please accept to continue using your device." Then your clause is gone.
duxup 5y ago
Google does everything they can to backup your photos ... and do it automatically. I'm not sure there's a real difference unless you want to watch your settings all the time. In google land they tend to reset ... and really that happens a lot of places. I think for most people if you use google, you're in their cloud.

shapefrog 5y ago

> B) They scan everything that exists on my device No ... They scan everything that I have released to apple photos that exists on my device. Same scan - different place.

__blockcipher__ 5y ago
The issue is that as soon as you set that precedent, it’s only a matter of time before it extends beyond iCloud. That’s the problem with doing any device-level scanning. This is dystopian and scary. And yes I understand the technology in its current iteration. The current form has problems (weaponizing collisions etc) but the real issue comes with future developments.
- robertoandred 5y ago
  Was scanning server side not a precedent?
  - Multicomp 5y ago
    It was but it was one we were not in a position to resist at the time. Surrendered to almighty convenience. But here appears to be beyond the pale such that people are saying "this far, no farther!"
  - __blockcipher__ 5y ago
    It set the precedent for scanning server side. Which I don’t like but there’s really no way to avoid it anyway. Now we have clientside scanning, and actually being led by the [note the scare quotes] “pro-privacy” two ton gorilla. It’s a whole different ballgame.
  - shapefrog 5y ago
    Furthermore, was uploading (backing up) the entire contents of your phone to a server to be freely scaned and distributed (with warrant of course) server side not also a precedent? Must have been absloutely nuts round here back in 2011 when they announced the particular slippery slope that is iCloud backup.
- shapefrog 5y ago
  > They scan everything that exists on my device I get to select the issue and it was in response to the previous claim that 'they' are scanning everything that exists on the device right now. A year ago this was a possible 'future development'. 10 years from now I could be living on Mars. This is all hypothetical.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > This is all hypothetical. Exactly. However, people don't seem to have an issue when hypothesizing that CSAM detection is good actually, because Apple might implement E2EE, despite no evidence of such intentions. For some reason, though, people take issue when others hypothesize that CSAM detection is bad actually, because Apple might expand it further and violate users' privacy even more. And there's actually precedent for this hypothesis, given Apple's actions here and their own words[1]: > This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. These efforts will evolve and expand over time. [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/ https://www.apple.com/child-safety/

gmueckl 5y ago

Isn't the default on Android these days that all images get uploaded ("backed up") to Photos? And how many users are actually altering defaults?

whoknowswhat11 5y ago

As has been repeated over and over, apple only scans photos that are part if icloud photos (ie, uploaded). Don't want your photo's scanned, don't sync them to icloud. Seriously! Please include the actual system when discussing this system, not your bogeyman system. "To help address this, new technology in iOS and iPadOS* will allow Apple to detect known CSAM images stored in iCloud Photos." To increase privacy - they perform the scan on device prior to upload.

Johnny555 5y ago
As has been repeated over and over, apple only scans photos that are part if icloud photos (ie, uploaded). "for now" Which is the part most people have a problem with -- they say that they are only scanning iCloud uploads now, but it's simple extension of the scanner to scan all files. I don't care if Apple scans my iCloud uploads on iCloud servers, I don't want them scanning photos on my device.
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  I will believe them if they put their money where their mouth is: as a clause to iOS user agreement saying that if they ever use they ever use this functionality for anything other than CSAM or on anything other than iCloud photos, ever person who was subjected to this scan will be paid 100 million dollars by Apple. I will believe them if they put this clause in, and I know when they have changed their plans when they remove the clause. No more pinky swears, let's add some stakes for breaking the promise.
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    I'd be satisfied with a money back guarantee -- if they change the policy then I can return the phone for a full refund.
  - kcb 5y ago
    Until one day a box pops up. It says "We've updated our terms. See this 10,000 line document here. Please accept to continue using your device." Then your clause is gone.

duxup 5y ago

Google does everything they can to backup your photos ... and do it automatically. I'm not sure there's a real difference unless you want to watch your settings all the time. In google land they tend to reset ... and really that happens a lot of places. I think for most people if you use google, you're in their cloud.