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Personally, I'd prefer no privacy intrusions at all. The issue is that Apple previously was not intruding into their user's privacy (at least publicly), but no

Personally, I'd prefer no privacy intrusions at all. The issue is that Apple previously was not intruding into their user's privacy (at least publicly), but now they are. It sounds like your argument is that Apple could have been doing this all along and just not telling us. I find that unlikely mainly because they've marketed themselves as a privacy-focused company up until now.

endisneigh 5y ago
I’m your situation can’t you just turn off the scanning? What’s the issue?
- petersellers 5y ago
  There are two different "features" being implemented - Messages scanning for minors on a family plan (which can be turned off) and iCloud Photo scanning (which can't be turned off, as far as I know). So no, you can't just turn it off.
  - CubsFan1060 5y ago
    Yes, it can be turned off. https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/apple-csam-detection-disabled-icloud-photos/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/apple-csam-detection-di...
    - petersellers 5y ago
      Only if you disable iCloud photos completely. So no, you cannot turn off the feature unless you stop using iCloud photos.
      - CubsFan1060 5y ago
        Correct. I'm not sure how that's a distinction from "you can't turn it off" though. I believe they've been doing this scan server-side for quite some time already.
        petersellers 5y ago
        Here's the distinction: I used to be able to use iCloud photos without having my photos scanned, and now I can't. So I have to make a choice of either dropping iCloud photos completely or submit to having all of my photos scanned. I don't think they have been doing server-side scanning until now, hence the publicity. Do you have any evidence that shows they've been doing this before?
        CubsFan1060 5y ago
        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7865979/Apple-reveals-scans-iCloud-photos-check-child-sexual-abuse-images.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7865979/Appl... I wasn’t able to find the whole video though. No time to watch, but. https://www.ces.tech/Videos/2020/Chief-Privacy-Officer-Roundtable-What-Do-Consumer.aspx https://www.ces.tech/Videos/2020/Chief-Privacy-Officer-Round...
        petersellers 5y ago
        The article you linked makes a surprising claim, and it contradicts what the EFF said recently about this here - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/apples-plan-think-different-about-encryption-opens-backdoor-your-private-life https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/apples-plan-think-diff... > Currently, although Apple holds the keys to view Photos stored in iCloud Photos, it does not scan these images It also seems weird that the EFF wouldn't have complained about this before if Apple was known to be doing server-side scanning for some time now. I also am not going to watch through an hour video, but I scanned the transcript and I didn't see anything that said that Apple currently (at that time) scanned content.
        CubsFan1060 5y ago
        I can’t find any articles about eff complaining about gmail, onedrive, or discord doing similar scanning either. All of those services (and more) do similar scans.
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    But you can tho…
    - petersellers 5y ago
      Please show evidence where the feature can be turned off (without having to completely disable iCloud photos).
      - endisneigh 5y ago
        You turn it off by turning off iCloud photos, I never claimed otherwise. If you don’t trust Apple why would you use iCloud anyway? Makes no sense.
        petersellers 5y ago
        > You turn it off by turning off iCloud photos, I never claimed otherwise. I just have to point out the ridiculousness of this statement. With your logic any feature in any product can be "turned off" by not using the entire product at all. For example, the radio in my car sounds like shit, I guess I should just stop driving completely to avoid having to hear it. In reality, this new "feature" will be a requirement of using iCloud Photos. The feature itself cannot be turned off. If your answer is to stop using iCloud Photos, that is no help for the millions of people who currently use iCloud Photos. > If you don’t trust Apple why would you use iCloud anyway? Makes no sense. I've trusted Apple for a long time because I felt like they were one of the only companies that cared about consumer privacy. After these actions I am less convinced of that. I'm not sure why that stance is so surprising.
        endisneigh 5y ago
        > In reality, this new "feature" will be a requirement of using iCloud Photos. The feature itself cannot be turned off. If your answer is to stop using iCloud Photos, that is no help for the millions of people who currently use iCloud Photos. iCloud Photos can be used on Windows, for example. This scanning only applies to iOS devices. You could use iCloud Photos and not be subject to the scanning. > I've trusted Apple for a long time because I felt like they were one of the only companies that cared about consumer privacy. After these actions I am less convinced of that. I'm not sure why that stance is so surprising. Nothing about what they're doing is contradictory with privacy beyond what they're already doing. The only reason they're even implementing it this way is because they do care about privacy. They could just not encrypt and scan on the server like Google, Microsoft, Dropbox, Box.com and more.
shapefrog 5y ago
> The issue is that Apple previously was not intruding into their user's privacy Apple reserves the right at all times to determine whether Content is appropriate and in compliance with this Agreement, and may screen, move, refuse, modify and/or remove Content at any time, without prior notice and in its sole discretion, if such Content is found to be in violation of this Agreement or is otherwise objectionable. You must not have been paying attention for the last 20 years.

endisneigh 5y ago

I’m your situation can’t you just turn off the scanning? What’s the issue?

petersellers 5y ago
There are two different "features" being implemented - Messages scanning for minors on a family plan (which can be turned off) and iCloud Photo scanning (which can't be turned off, as far as I know). So no, you can't just turn it off.
- CubsFan1060 5y ago
  Yes, it can be turned off. https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/apple-csam-detection-disabled-icloud-photos/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/apple-csam-detection-di...
  - petersellers 5y ago
    Only if you disable iCloud photos completely. So no, you cannot turn off the feature unless you stop using iCloud photos.
    - CubsFan1060 5y ago
      Correct. I'm not sure how that's a distinction from "you can't turn it off" though. I believe they've been doing this scan server-side for quite some time already.
      - petersellers 5y ago
        Here's the distinction: I used to be able to use iCloud photos without having my photos scanned, and now I can't. So I have to make a choice of either dropping iCloud photos completely or submit to having all of my photos scanned. I don't think they have been doing server-side scanning until now, hence the publicity. Do you have any evidence that shows they've been doing this before?
        CubsFan1060 5y ago
        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7865979/Apple-reveals-scans-iCloud-photos-check-child-sexual-abuse-images.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7865979/Appl... I wasn’t able to find the whole video though. No time to watch, but. https://www.ces.tech/Videos/2020/Chief-Privacy-Officer-Roundtable-What-Do-Consumer.aspx https://www.ces.tech/Videos/2020/Chief-Privacy-Officer-Round...
        petersellers 5y ago
        The article you linked makes a surprising claim, and it contradicts what the EFF said recently about this here - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/apples-plan-think-different-about-encryption-opens-backdoor-your-private-life https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/apples-plan-think-diff... > Currently, although Apple holds the keys to view Photos stored in iCloud Photos, it does not scan these images It also seems weird that the EFF wouldn't have complained about this before if Apple was known to be doing server-side scanning for some time now. I also am not going to watch through an hour video, but I scanned the transcript and I didn't see anything that said that Apple currently (at that time) scanned content.
        CubsFan1060 5y ago
        I can’t find any articles about eff complaining about gmail, onedrive, or discord doing similar scanning either. All of those services (and more) do similar scans.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  But you can tho…
  - petersellers 5y ago
    Please show evidence where the feature can be turned off (without having to completely disable iCloud photos).
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      You turn it off by turning off iCloud photos, I never claimed otherwise. If you don’t trust Apple why would you use iCloud anyway? Makes no sense.
      - petersellers 5y ago
        > You turn it off by turning off iCloud photos, I never claimed otherwise. I just have to point out the ridiculousness of this statement. With your logic any feature in any product can be "turned off" by not using the entire product at all. For example, the radio in my car sounds like shit, I guess I should just stop driving completely to avoid having to hear it. In reality, this new "feature" will be a requirement of using iCloud Photos. The feature itself cannot be turned off. If your answer is to stop using iCloud Photos, that is no help for the millions of people who currently use iCloud Photos. > If you don’t trust Apple why would you use iCloud anyway? Makes no sense. I've trusted Apple for a long time because I felt like they were one of the only companies that cared about consumer privacy. After these actions I am less convinced of that. I'm not sure why that stance is so surprising.
        endisneigh 5y ago
        > In reality, this new "feature" will be a requirement of using iCloud Photos. The feature itself cannot be turned off. If your answer is to stop using iCloud Photos, that is no help for the millions of people who currently use iCloud Photos. iCloud Photos can be used on Windows, for example. This scanning only applies to iOS devices. You could use iCloud Photos and not be subject to the scanning. > I've trusted Apple for a long time because I felt like they were one of the only companies that cared about consumer privacy. After these actions I am less convinced of that. I'm not sure why that stance is so surprising. Nothing about what they're doing is contradictory with privacy beyond what they're already doing. The only reason they're even implementing it this way is because they do care about privacy. They could just not encrypt and scan on the server like Google, Microsoft, Dropbox, Box.com and more.

shapefrog 5y ago

> The issue is that Apple previously was not intruding into their user's privacy Apple reserves the right at all times to determine whether Content is appropriate and in compliance with this Agreement, and may screen, move, refuse, modify and/or remove Content at any time, without prior notice and in its sole discretion, if such Content is found to be in violation of this Agreement or is otherwise objectionable. You must not have been paying attention for the last 20 years.