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Apple's management can also be prone to hubris. This is also very much a case where the engineers were left unbridled without any proper check from marketing an

Apple's management can also be prone to hubris. This is also very much a case where the engineers were left unbridled without any proper check from marketing and comms, I suspect because of the extreme complexity of the problem and the sheer impossibility of putting it into layman terms effectively.

bhawks 5y ago
Was this a pure engineering driven exercise? I hadn't heard that before and it doesn't match up with what I've heard about Apple's internal culture. The level of defensive pushback really makes me feel that they are very bought into the system. Definitely would appreciate a link to anything substantial indicating that this was a bunch of eng in over their heads.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  Also have to agree: I don't see how this could originate from engineers. Every engineer I've spoken with at the company I work for has been mortified by this insanity.
  - sorrytim 5y ago
    It’s really unpopular inside the fruit company. I’ve not spoken with a single engineer in Cupertino who thinks this is a good path. There has been radio silence from management on how to address this. It almost feels like they want this to fail. In the past management has given us resources and talking points we can use with our friends and family. Not this time.
    - orangeoxidation 5y ago
      > In the past management has given us resources and talking points we can use with our friends and family. Wow. That feels like an overreach. 'We don't just buy your labor, but also your private opinion and tell you how to talk to your family'.
      - sorrytim 5y ago
        Certainly people tow the official line, but it does help us to articulate the position of the company so that we aren’t so misinformed that we spread FUD.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    This doesn't hold much water. As a counter example, we have all of the engineers that designed Facebook, Google, etc. We have people working in ad tech. We have people working in lots of places that you and the people that you talk with directly would be moritified, but there are countless others that need a paycheck and do whatever pointy haired bosses tell them to do.
stingraycharles 5y ago
Maybe the implementation is difficult to put into layman’s terms, but the high level goals - scanning the devices for child porn - most definitely is not. I’m not buying the “engineers were left unbridled” argument, I think there just have been a level of obliviousness in much wider a part of the organization for something like this to happen.

bhawks 5y ago

Was this a pure engineering driven exercise? I hadn't heard that before and it doesn't match up with what I've heard about Apple's internal culture. The level of defensive pushback really makes me feel that they are very bought into the system. Definitely would appreciate a link to anything substantial indicating that this was a bunch of eng in over their heads.

emptysongglass 5y ago
Also have to agree: I don't see how this could originate from engineers. Every engineer I've spoken with at the company I work for has been mortified by this insanity.
- sorrytim 5y ago
  It’s really unpopular inside the fruit company. I’ve not spoken with a single engineer in Cupertino who thinks this is a good path. There has been radio silence from management on how to address this. It almost feels like they want this to fail. In the past management has given us resources and talking points we can use with our friends and family. Not this time.
  - orangeoxidation 5y ago
    > In the past management has given us resources and talking points we can use with our friends and family. Wow. That feels like an overreach. 'We don't just buy your labor, but also your private opinion and tell you how to talk to your family'.
    - sorrytim 5y ago
      Certainly people tow the official line, but it does help us to articulate the position of the company so that we aren’t so misinformed that we spread FUD.
- dylan604 5y ago
  This doesn't hold much water. As a counter example, we have all of the engineers that designed Facebook, Google, etc. We have people working in ad tech. We have people working in lots of places that you and the people that you talk with directly would be moritified, but there are countless others that need a paycheck and do whatever pointy haired bosses tell them to do.

stingraycharles 5y ago

Maybe the implementation is difficult to put into layman’s terms, but the high level goals - scanning the devices for child porn - most definitely is not. I’m not buying the “engineers were left unbridled” argument, I think there just have been a level of obliviousness in much wider a part of the organization for something like this to happen.