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> I love walled gardens and tightly curated experiences... I don’t care about developers and I don’t care about “freedom”. That's great. It doesn't mean that w

> I love walled gardens and tightly curated experiences... I don’t care about developers and I don’t care about “freedom”. That's great. It doesn't mean that we, who don't like walled gardens and love our computing freedom, are willing to kow-tow to Apple's every whims and fancy and sacrifice our rights. And if you believe that our criticisms and protests don't have any effect then you should be content with that fact and ignore us instead of the pointless exercise of telling us that we are ignorant and need to shut up - it's obvious that we value different things. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong - it just means we have different expectations, and I am sure you don't have any objections to people thinking different from you, right?

askafriend 5y ago
You don’t have to buy anything from a company that doesn’t make what you’re looking for. You’re welcome to buy an Android phone. Apple has a multi-decade history of following their values. The tradeoffs of these values are well documented throughout history - obviously there are pros and cons. What I don’t get is why people want every company to bend to some arbitrary set of values. You then end up with the same product experience everywhere. I for one like the fact that Android and iOS take very different approaches to a mobile platform.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  > What I don’t get is why people want every company to bend to some arbitrary set of values. It's not an "arbitrary set of values" - it's called consumer rights. And just like your right to free speech, right to vote, right to be treated as an equal and not be discriminated because of some part of your identity etc., consumer rights have been hard-won rights too. Apple can customise their products as much as they want, but not at the expense of our rights. They can, and should, operate within that limit, as otherwise these rights becomes meaningless and leads to abuse.
  - askafriend 5y ago
    Should Halo games be forced to run on Playstation? Should I be able to install MacOS on my Xbox? Should Audis be forced to design engines in a way that makes oil changes user-servicable? I don’t buy this overly broad “consumer rights” argument. You can frame anything you want as a right this way. The practical reality is that you have a choice in the marketplace. No one is being strong armed into anything and there are alternatives that can give you what you want.
    - brandonr49 5y ago
      I think these questions were meant to have an obvious and answer but they don't. We have laws and courts to figure this out. Maybe you should be able to install MacOS on your Xbox and maybe Audi should be forced to change their design. VW certainly was forced to make changes after Dieselgate. Consumers have some rights that are largely not argued about these days, like honesty in the product listing. The people on the side of more rights for the consumer are always confused why so many people want fewer rights for, not only themselves, but their fellow citizens as well. It feels unreasonable: we're standing up for you to have these rights as well and you're complaining that you don't want them so no one should have them. In a well functioning market it would be a different story but we really need to stop pretending that mobile OSes are a healthy market with lots of competition. There are 2 players worth mentioning and that kind of market needs additional safeguards

askafriend 5y ago

You don’t have to buy anything from a company that doesn’t make what you’re looking for. You’re welcome to buy an Android phone. Apple has a multi-decade history of following their values. The tradeoffs of these values are well documented throughout history - obviously there are pros and cons. What I don’t get is why people want every company to bend to some arbitrary set of values. You then end up with the same product experience everywhere. I for one like the fact that Android and iOS take very different approaches to a mobile platform.

webmobdev 5y ago
> What I don’t get is why people want every company to bend to some arbitrary set of values. It's not an "arbitrary set of values" - it's called consumer rights. And just like your right to free speech, right to vote, right to be treated as an equal and not be discriminated because of some part of your identity etc., consumer rights have been hard-won rights too. Apple can customise their products as much as they want, but not at the expense of our rights. They can, and should, operate within that limit, as otherwise these rights becomes meaningless and leads to abuse.
- askafriend 5y ago
  Should Halo games be forced to run on Playstation? Should I be able to install MacOS on my Xbox? Should Audis be forced to design engines in a way that makes oil changes user-servicable? I don’t buy this overly broad “consumer rights” argument. You can frame anything you want as a right this way. The practical reality is that you have a choice in the marketplace. No one is being strong armed into anything and there are alternatives that can give you what you want.
  - brandonr49 5y ago
    I think these questions were meant to have an obvious and answer but they don't. We have laws and courts to figure this out. Maybe you should be able to install MacOS on your Xbox and maybe Audi should be forced to change their design. VW certainly was forced to make changes after Dieselgate. Consumers have some rights that are largely not argued about these days, like honesty in the product listing. The people on the side of more rights for the consumer are always confused why so many people want fewer rights for, not only themselves, but their fellow citizens as well. It feels unreasonable: we're standing up for you to have these rights as well and you're complaining that you don't want them so no one should have them. In a well functioning market it would be a different story but we really need to stop pretending that mobile OSes are a healthy market with lots of competition. There are 2 players worth mentioning and that kind of market needs additional safeguards