4 ms·

This is just nonsense. Where are you coming up with this theory? Everyone has an ssn already wouldn’t that qualify for the mark?

by rank0 5y ago

gjsman-1000 5y ago
They fear that the ID, rather than being an easily stolen card, may one day become a chip that is implanted in the body... in the right hand or forehead. And that wouldn't be a sin in and of itself, but the Bible implies that Christians will need to commit apostasy and worship the Antichrist to receive this mark which will be necessary to function in society. So imagine a dictator, or a tyrannical government (say China) who said you need to worship Xi Jinping to receive the chip implanted in your body for identification purposes. Something like that they speculate. And that if you don't worship Xi, you don't get the chip, and you can't buy or sell anything.
Geezus_42 5y ago
When has religion ever been consistent?
da_chicken 5y ago
There are people who believe the Earth is flat and that Donald Trump won the 2020 election. Of course there are people who believe social security numbers are the mark of the beast. You can find dozens of conspiracy theorists making that claim with a simple Internet search. It's not even a rare conspiracy theory.
pueblito 5y ago
This is absolutely a concern I have heard my entire life from many people in rural Colorado, and they are all dead serious about it.
dharmab 5y ago
There were objections to SSNs when they were introduced. A few religious groups have legal exclusions from Social Security.
tristor 5y ago
As someone from the Midwest, I can absolutely say that resistance to the RealID Act was entirely based in this sort of flawed religious logic. I heard it from some of my own family members who are politically influential in their community.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Part of it too was that the original RealID Act actually did call for a national database of all citizens in the US, but this was later removed. Now it's basically just a list of security requirements before granting the ID that is applicable everywhere.
- oasisbob 5y ago
  Perhaps in the Midwest, but here on the west coast immigration policy and resistance to Bush-era security theater also played a part.
addingnumbers 5y ago
The book of revelations has frequently had a strong influence on American public policy. Biblical prophecy finds way to legislators in battle over ID plan http://archive.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/03/11/biblical_prophecy_finds_way_to_legislators_in_battle_over_id_plan/ http://archive.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/03/... > Fears about the federal government and the mark of the beast stretch back 100 years. ... The fears are anchored in St. John's warnings about the Roman government -- which conducted census surveys in Jesus' time -- that are recorded in Revelation, he said. > "Whenever you have an active government that seems like it's trying to gather data on its citizens or take away certain freedoms, pretty often this particular prophesy is cited," he said.
hobs 5y ago
This is repeated consistently by the religious right and even is used as a reason that masking should not be put in place, because it is a "mark." When bar codes were introduced there was religious fervor and resistance about the mark of the beast on every product - its a real and persistent meme among the christian crazy.
outworlder 5y ago
> Everyone has an ssn already wouldn’t that qualify for the mark? Yes, the SSN is already used as a very weak form of identification, something it was never intended to. Are you approaching this from a logical standpoint?
the-dude 5y ago
Are SSN's assigned at birth?
- dharmab 5y ago
  They were not originally, but now they are. There is an interesting case of a Texas woman who was born "off-radar" to libertarian parents and had no government documentation of her existence. This caused major problems with access to services and employment in her adult life until a senator intervened and introduced legislation for the situation. SSNs are not universal, either. There are some unions and religious groups that have legal exemptions.
  - astura 5y ago
    >SSNs are not universal, either. There are some unions and religious groups that have legal exemptions. Exempt from participating in social security (the program), not exempt from having a social security number. In fact, getting a social security number is the first step in applying for an exception from social security. Basically, SSA needs to track you as being exempt from social security, which requires a unique identifier.
- toast0 5y ago
  Not exclusively, but Enumeration at Birth is pushed hard and I saw a stat that I believe said 99% of infants were enumerated at birth (it may have said that 99% of enumerated infants were enumerated at birth, however). This process began in 1987. Since you need a SSN for a child to get the tax benefits of a child (as of 1986), and most parents will want those, it's an easy sell to get a SSN while processing the rest of the birth paperwork, rather than doing it later. I was born before 1986 and I believe my parents applied for SSNs for me and my siblings around then because it was needed for tax purposes.
lbotos 5y ago
My mother is one of these people. They exist. Their logic is flimsy at best, but there are enough of them embedded in churches that it's a thing.
enkid 5y ago
I literally overheard someone (at a science museum no less) claim the mRNA vaccines were the beginnings of the mark of the beast basically because they messed with your genetics. People do take it seriously.
waylandsmithers 5y ago
I thought it was a joke at first but maybe not. Of course many of these people I'm sure are in favor of requiring ID at the ballot box...
- kook_throwaway 5y ago
  And other people think you should have to present proof of vaccination to go outside but no ID vote. Neither group is thinking past the propaganda their side presents.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    Are there really people that want to require proof of vaccination to go outside? I haven’t heard that one.
    - kook_throwaway 5y ago
      Hyperbole, admittedly. Both east and west coast have vaccine mandates for some indoor public places now. Poor choice of words on my part.

This is just nonsense. Where are you coming up with this theory? Everyone has an ssn already wouldn’t that qualify for the mark?

by rank0 5y ago

This is just nonsense. Where are you coming up with this theory? Everyone has an ssn already wouldn’t that qualify for the mark?

gjsman-1000 5y ago

They fear that the ID, rather than being an easily stolen card, may one day become a chip that is implanted in the body... in the right hand or forehead. And that wouldn't be a sin in and of itself, but the Bible implies that Christians will need to commit apostasy and worship the Antichrist to receive this mark which will be necessary to function in society. So imagine a dictator, or a tyrannical government (say China) who said you need to worship Xi Jinping to receive the chip implanted in your body for identification purposes. Something like that they speculate. And that if you don't worship Xi, you don't get the chip, and you can't buy or sell anything.

Geezus_42 5y ago

When has religion ever been consistent?

da_chicken 5y ago

There are people who believe the Earth is flat and that Donald Trump won the 2020 election. Of course there are people who believe social security numbers are the mark of the beast. You can find dozens of conspiracy theorists making that claim with a simple Internet search. It's not even a rare conspiracy theory.

pueblito 5y ago

This is absolutely a concern I have heard my entire life from many people in rural Colorado, and they are all dead serious about it.

dharmab 5y ago

There were objections to SSNs when they were introduced. A few religious groups have legal exclusions from Social Security.

tristor 5y ago

As someone from the Midwest, I can absolutely say that resistance to the RealID Act was entirely based in this sort of flawed religious logic. I heard it from some of my own family members who are politically influential in their community.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Part of it too was that the original RealID Act actually did call for a national database of all citizens in the US, but this was later removed. Now it's basically just a list of security requirements before granting the ID that is applicable everywhere.
oasisbob 5y ago
Perhaps in the Midwest, but here on the west coast immigration policy and resistance to Bush-era security theater also played a part.

addingnumbers 5y ago

The book of revelations has frequently had a strong influence on American public policy. Biblical prophecy finds way to legislators in battle over ID plan http://archive.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/03/11/biblical_prophecy_finds_way_to_legislators_in_battle_over_id_plan/ http://archive.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/03/... > Fears about the federal government and the mark of the beast stretch back 100 years. ... The fears are anchored in St. John's warnings about the Roman government -- which conducted census surveys in Jesus' time -- that are recorded in Revelation, he said. > "Whenever you have an active government that seems like it's trying to gather data on its citizens or take away certain freedoms, pretty often this particular prophesy is cited," he said.

hobs 5y ago

This is repeated consistently by the religious right and even is used as a reason that masking should not be put in place, because it is a "mark." When bar codes were introduced there was religious fervor and resistance about the mark of the beast on every product - its a real and persistent meme among the christian crazy.

outworlder 5y ago

> Everyone has an ssn already wouldn’t that qualify for the mark? Yes, the SSN is already used as a very weak form of identification, something it was never intended to. Are you approaching this from a logical standpoint?

the-dude 5y ago

Are SSN's assigned at birth?

dharmab 5y ago
They were not originally, but now they are. There is an interesting case of a Texas woman who was born "off-radar" to libertarian parents and had no government documentation of her existence. This caused major problems with access to services and employment in her adult life until a senator intervened and introduced legislation for the situation. SSNs are not universal, either. There are some unions and religious groups that have legal exemptions.
- astura 5y ago
  >SSNs are not universal, either. There are some unions and religious groups that have legal exemptions. Exempt from participating in social security (the program), not exempt from having a social security number. In fact, getting a social security number is the first step in applying for an exception from social security. Basically, SSA needs to track you as being exempt from social security, which requires a unique identifier.
toast0 5y ago
Not exclusively, but Enumeration at Birth is pushed hard and I saw a stat that I believe said 99% of infants were enumerated at birth (it may have said that 99% of enumerated infants were enumerated at birth, however). This process began in 1987. Since you need a SSN for a child to get the tax benefits of a child (as of 1986), and most parents will want those, it's an easy sell to get a SSN while processing the rest of the birth paperwork, rather than doing it later. I was born before 1986 and I believe my parents applied for SSNs for me and my siblings around then because it was needed for tax purposes.

lbotos 5y ago

My mother is one of these people. They exist. Their logic is flimsy at best, but there are enough of them embedded in churches that it's a thing.

enkid 5y ago

I literally overheard someone (at a science museum no less) claim the mRNA vaccines were the beginnings of the mark of the beast basically because they messed with your genetics. People do take it seriously.

waylandsmithers 5y ago

I thought it was a joke at first but maybe not. Of course many of these people I'm sure are in favor of requiring ID at the ballot box...

kook_throwaway 5y ago
And other people think you should have to present proof of vaccination to go outside but no ID vote. Neither group is thinking past the propaganda their side presents.
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  Are there really people that want to require proof of vaccination to go outside? I haven’t heard that one.
  - kook_throwaway 5y ago
    Hyperbole, admittedly. Both east and west coast have vaccine mandates for some indoor public places now. Poor choice of words on my part.