5 ms·

Would it not be to prevent supply chain attacks, and to guarantee the user that all code you run is pure and type safe? They don’t hinder anyone from forking a

Would it not be to prevent supply chain attacks, and to guarantee the user that all code you run is pure and type safe? They don’t hinder anyone from forking and removing this limitation, allowing any package author to run native code on your machine.

macintux 5y ago
> They don’t hinder anyone from forking and removing this limitation, allowing any package author to run native code on your machine. That has arisen a few times here. Yes, they actually do actively discourage forking (to the point of threatening “excommunication” from the community).
- vmchale 5y ago
  Yeah if anything the need to constantly fork the compiler indicates a problem lol.
  - jeofken 5y ago
    It can be as simple as having a patch and just updating by reapplying the patch over the master branch. You’d have to build from source of course, rather than downloading someone else’s binaries.
- jeofken 5y ago
  Who cares? It’s a computer program, just have it do what purpose you require
  - macintux 5y ago
    Forking has long-term maintenance costs, even without the hassle of trying to hide your efforts from the Elm maintainers. I’d be fine forking it to pursue a personal project. I’d never do that for any critical business need.
    - jeofken 5y ago
      • Your company has a patch allowing installing binary code from other sources • When you want to update to a new version of Elm, do git rebase and reapply the patch. • Now your source tree and history is identical to upstream, plus one commit Most likely the code restricting installing binaries from only one source isn’t changing a lot, so patch conflicts should not be too much of a hinderance
- rtfeldman 5y ago
  Just to correct this: for as long as I can remember, Evan's stance has been "feel free to fork Elm, just please don't call your fork Elm, since that would confuse people." There have been a couple of forks with different names, and nobody's been "excommunicated" or whatever. The forks haven't gotten much traction, but they're probably still out there.
  - macintux 5y ago
    I have heard otherwise, both in comments here and via https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/why-im-leaving-elm/#forkability https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/why-im-leaving-elm/#forka..., but it’s entirely possible I’m wrong. Added: This comment is also not terribly friendly. https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#issuecomment-415860947 https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#i...
    - rtfeldman 5y ago
      My word choice certainly could have been better (I was upset, and it showed), but to quote what I said there anyway: "If you understand the design goals, but don't agree with them, why not channel that in a positive way - e.g. by building something that fits your vision instead of directly working against Elm's design goals?" - in substance, this is consistent with what I said above: it's totally encouraged if anyone wants to go in a different direction from Elm's design, just please don't call it Elm. As it turned out, this is exactly what the OP in that thread did - he created https://www.mint-lang.com https://www.mint-lang.com - which I think is a very positive development indeed!
      - macintux 5y ago
        I'm glad things turned out well. I definitely am hoping Elm can help me bootstrap into the more formal FP world.
- G4BB3R 5y ago
  That's not true, lamdera is a fork and has it's own channel inside elm slack. Terezka (that is from core team) already said that if part of the community wants to fork Elm, that would be ok. https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/clients-expressing-doubt-about-choosing-elm/6835/56?u=g4bb3r https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/clients-expressing-doubt-ab...
  - macintux 5y ago
    I have heard otherwise, both in comments here and via https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/why-im-leaving-elm/#forkability https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/why-im-leaving-elm/#forka..., but it’s entirely possible I’m wrong. Added: This comment is also not terribly friendly. https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#issuecomment-415860947 https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#i...
  - macintux 5y ago
    Ah, I see, lamdera isn’t a “we’ll change Evan’s architectural decisions” kind of fork, which seems to be much of the source of contention.

macintux 5y ago

> They don’t hinder anyone from forking and removing this limitation, allowing any package author to run native code on your machine. That has arisen a few times here. Yes, they actually do actively discourage forking (to the point of threatening “excommunication” from the community).

vmchale 5y ago
Yeah if anything the need to constantly fork the compiler indicates a problem lol.
- jeofken 5y ago
  It can be as simple as having a patch and just updating by reapplying the patch over the master branch. You’d have to build from source of course, rather than downloading someone else’s binaries.
jeofken 5y ago
Who cares? It’s a computer program, just have it do what purpose you require
- macintux 5y ago
  Forking has long-term maintenance costs, even without the hassle of trying to hide your efforts from the Elm maintainers. I’d be fine forking it to pursue a personal project. I’d never do that for any critical business need.
  - jeofken 5y ago
    • Your company has a patch allowing installing binary code from other sources • When you want to update to a new version of Elm, do git rebase and reapply the patch. • Now your source tree and history is identical to upstream, plus one commit Most likely the code restricting installing binaries from only one source isn’t changing a lot, so patch conflicts should not be too much of a hinderance
rtfeldman 5y ago
Just to correct this: for as long as I can remember, Evan's stance has been "feel free to fork Elm, just please don't call your fork Elm, since that would confuse people." There have been a couple of forks with different names, and nobody's been "excommunicated" or whatever. The forks haven't gotten much traction, but they're probably still out there.
- macintux 5y ago
  I have heard otherwise, both in comments here and via https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/why-im-leaving-elm/#forkability https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/why-im-leaving-elm/#forka..., but it’s entirely possible I’m wrong. Added: This comment is also not terribly friendly. https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#issuecomment-415860947 https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#i...
  - rtfeldman 5y ago
    My word choice certainly could have been better (I was upset, and it showed), but to quote what I said there anyway: "If you understand the design goals, but don't agree with them, why not channel that in a positive way - e.g. by building something that fits your vision instead of directly working against Elm's design goals?" - in substance, this is consistent with what I said above: it's totally encouraged if anyone wants to go in a different direction from Elm's design, just please don't call it Elm. As it turned out, this is exactly what the OP in that thread did - he created https://www.mint-lang.com https://www.mint-lang.com - which I think is a very positive development indeed!
    - macintux 5y ago
      I'm glad things turned out well. I definitely am hoping Elm can help me bootstrap into the more formal FP world.
G4BB3R 5y ago
That's not true, lamdera is a fork and has it's own channel inside elm slack. Terezka (that is from core team) already said that if part of the community wants to fork Elm, that would be ok. https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/clients-expressing-doubt-about-choosing-elm/6835/56?u=g4bb3r https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/clients-expressing-doubt-ab...
- macintux 5y ago
  I have heard otherwise, both in comments here and via https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/why-im-leaving-elm/#forkability https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/why-im-leaving-elm/#forka..., but it’s entirely possible I’m wrong. Added: This comment is also not terribly friendly. https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#issuecomment-415860947 https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#i...
- macintux 5y ago
  Ah, I see, lamdera isn’t a “we’ll change Evan’s architectural decisions” kind of fork, which seems to be much of the source of contention.