3 ms·

> The article is clearly cherry-picking examples of uninformed or poor vegans while also ignoring how unhealthy other diets can be. Those "uninformed or poor v

> The article is clearly cherry-picking examples of uninformed or poor vegans while also ignoring how unhealthy other diets can be. Those "uninformed or poor vegans" (do you mean vegans "with poor eating habits"?) seem to be about half of all vegans: > Results: > Mean serum vitamin B12 was highest among omnivores (281, 95% CI: 270–292 pmol/l), intermediate among vegetarians (182, 95% CI: 175–189 pmol/l) and lowest among vegans (122, 95% CI: 117–127 pmol/l). In all, 52% of vegans, 7% of vegetarians and one omnivore were classified as vitamin B12 deficient (defined as serum vitamin B12 <118 pmol/l). There was no significant association between age or duration of adherence to a vegetarian or a vegan diet and serum vitamin B12. In contrast, folate concentrations were highest among vegans, intermediate among vegetarians and lowest among omnivores, but only two men (both omnivores) were categorized as folate deficient (defined as serum folate <6.3 nmol/l). https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn2010142.?mod=article_inline https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn2010142.?mod=article_inl... (Study cited in the article)

goodpoint 5y ago
This is only one study. And only from UK. Plus, it's from 11 years ago before a lot of B12 fortified products were introduced. And most importantly, it's only showing decrease in B12 while folates are higher and a healthy diet requires many hundreds nutrients. This is exactly what cherry-picking represents.
- cheese_goddess 5y ago
  That's one study I happened to read because it was linked in the article. You're welcome to link to the ones you prefer. I have to say though that in conversations like this there's nothing easier than to accuse the other person of "cherry picking". I link to one study, you say "Cherry Picking!". You link to a counter-study, I say "Cherry Picking!". And so on. What's difficult is to accept that there are things we don't know, that data is scarce, that most research results have low statistical power and that lacking solid information at a population level it's irresponsible to promote diets that may cause harm. Like you sya, a healthy diet (probably) requires many hundreds of nutrients. B12 is one of those. To not advise people to do things that may deprive them of necessary nutrients, is the responsible thing to do.
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    > I link to one study, you say "Cherry Picking!" No. We are talking about the article. > that data is scarce Nutrition science has been around for decades and people get PhDs in it. Like in most fields medicine there's always space to discover more but claiming that data is "scarce" is exaggerated. > lacking solid information at a population level it's irresponsible to promote diets that may cause harm. > To not advise people to do things that may deprive them of necessary nutrients, is the responsible thing to do. There are millions of people in the world facing risks related to obesity like hearth attack and following other bad diets due to ignorance, or poor availability of healthy foods, or following absurd fad diets. Of all irresponsible diet advice that can be given... you are clearly painting a boogeyman, like the article does. That's very cheeky.
    - cheese_goddess 5y ago
      > No. We are talking about the article. The article is citing a couple dozen studies. Which one is cherry picking? And how about the studies that show the results you prefer? I was expecting you to link to some "cherry picked" studies of you own. But I guess you can't even be arsed to do that, right? You're happy to just accuse me of "cherry picking".

goodpoint 5y ago

This is only one study. And only from UK. Plus, it's from 11 years ago before a lot of B12 fortified products were introduced. And most importantly, it's only showing decrease in B12 while folates are higher and a healthy diet requires many hundreds nutrients. This is exactly what cherry-picking represents.

cheese_goddess 5y ago
That's one study I happened to read because it was linked in the article. You're welcome to link to the ones you prefer. I have to say though that in conversations like this there's nothing easier than to accuse the other person of "cherry picking". I link to one study, you say "Cherry Picking!". You link to a counter-study, I say "Cherry Picking!". And so on. What's difficult is to accept that there are things we don't know, that data is scarce, that most research results have low statistical power and that lacking solid information at a population level it's irresponsible to promote diets that may cause harm. Like you sya, a healthy diet (probably) requires many hundreds of nutrients. B12 is one of those. To not advise people to do things that may deprive them of necessary nutrients, is the responsible thing to do.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > I link to one study, you say "Cherry Picking!" No. We are talking about the article. > that data is scarce Nutrition science has been around for decades and people get PhDs in it. Like in most fields medicine there's always space to discover more but claiming that data is "scarce" is exaggerated. > lacking solid information at a population level it's irresponsible to promote diets that may cause harm. > To not advise people to do things that may deprive them of necessary nutrients, is the responsible thing to do. There are millions of people in the world facing risks related to obesity like hearth attack and following other bad diets due to ignorance, or poor availability of healthy foods, or following absurd fad diets. Of all irresponsible diet advice that can be given... you are clearly painting a boogeyman, like the article does. That's very cheeky.
  - cheese_goddess 5y ago
    > No. We are talking about the article. The article is citing a couple dozen studies. Which one is cherry picking? And how about the studies that show the results you prefer? I was expecting you to link to some "cherry picked" studies of you own. But I guess you can't even be arsed to do that, right? You're happy to just accuse me of "cherry picking".