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>One of these passengers tried to kick out a window. Right? If someone attempts to cause structural damage at 30k feet, I'm going to stop that person with any
by vlan0 5y ago
>One of these passengers tried to kick out a window.
Right? If someone attempts to cause structural damage at 30k feet, I'm going to stop that person with any means necessary.
- relax88 5y agoYeah, I would have zero hesitation choking that person out if they were trying to kick a window or open a door. Even if there is a risk of killing them.
- Stevvo 5y agoSomeone trying to kick through a window or open a door does not pose any threat to you. The door will not open. The window itself is strong enough to withstand any kick that someone could put on it, but that is largely irrelevant as there is the a scratch pane, and that additional window with the tiny hole in the bottom in front of it for additional protection. If you're holding a choke hold beyond the point someone has passed out, i.e. "risking killing them", then YOU are the danger to others in that situation, not mentally ill dude trying in futility to exit the aircraft at 36000ft.
- relax88 5y agoThere is a risk of killing someone regardless of how long you hold a choke hold. Obviously if you could restrain them it wouldn’t be necessary. Im also not sure what to make of your comments regarding windows and doors on airplanes. It seems the doors would be impossible to open at high enough altitude, but I’m not so sure about windows: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2243764/Man-arrested-punching-JetBlue-plane-window-allowed-sit-mother.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2243764/Man-arreste... I wonder if in this example it was just the interior layer of plastic/glass?
- Stevvo 5y agoDoors including emergency exits are locked by the aircraft's systems when airborne. It's possible, though unlikely, the guy in the article made it through the middle plexiglass layer in addition to the inner layer which is only there to stop you from scratching the plexiglass; at 4mm thick it's certainly within the realm of human strength. However at 12mm the outer layer is comfortably beyond what a human could crack without weapons/tools.
- trollski 5y agoexactly the crew in that situation should ductape the choker and let the other go on with his kicking since its harmless. oh yeah i forgot you never said you suggest anyone should be taped. apologies for the strawman.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoA 13yo kid? Because that's who was trying to kick out a window. That incident was a case of a kid throwing a tantrum. A choke hold is not the proper response to that. IMO, duck taping the little shit to the seat is a very appropriate response if the child is truly uncontrollable.
- okprod 5y agoI'm in favor of the duct tape as well (as a step after requiring a minor's parents to manage them), but in these types of situations there isn't much time to assess and respond appropriately. For all anyone knows the 13 year old could have been attempting the next 9/11 in a coordinated effort.
- moate 5y agoAre you saying a 13 year old is incapable of kicking out a window or incapable of understand that kicking out a window is going to cause catastrophic consequences and therefore should be treated differently? What about this being a 13 year old is mitigating in your mind vs a middle-aged person?
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoThe kid is arguably too stupid to know better so taping him to a seat and making him look like an idiot is more appropriate (especially considering the parent asked for help in this case) and physical violence is less appropriate relative to an equivalent situation with someone old enough to know better.
- mrfusion 5y agoYou guys have really lost your minds on here.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago... It was a child. A child "tried to kick out the window". I expect airline windows to be able to withstand the kick of a child. Even if they were an older child.
- relax88 5y agoA child whose mother asked for help because the kid was fighting her and totally out of control. I don’t think you can reasonably expect people to sit there and do nothing in a situation where a 13 year old boy is overpowering his mother and kicking airplane windows.
- alex7o 5y agoWouldn't choke a child, but restraining and talking to him might/should help.
- relax88 5y agoYeah for sure. When I said I’d have zero hesitation choking someone out in my other comment I meant in a situation in which they could not be restrained. Teenage boys can be pretty big and strong, unlikely at 13 but some 16 year olds can be 6 feet tall and 180lbs. Like I’m definitely not sitting there going “oh well I guess since we couldn’t hold them down well just have to hope the window doesn’t break”.
- Broken_Hippo 5y agoAt the end of the day: It was still a child. The airplane windows should hold. Restraints are fine, if you really need them. Duct tape, though? It was still a child. Even at 13.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- tpmx 5y agoIs it possible to cause structural damage on a passenger aircraft window without tools? Seems like it should have been a design a criteria that it shouldn't be, at least not in x minutes.
- willis936 5y agoThe time to find out if a piece of plastic can handle a 100 lb bag of water slamming into it is not when that piece of plastic is keeping 100 people alive.
- tpmx 5y agoI'm all for restraining any passenger that behaves that way, with or without duct tape. I'm mostly curious about whether there's a real risk or not of a passenger breaking a window without tools.
- ASalazarMX 5y agoIf you have a passenger so out of control it tries to break a window, who knows what other actions they will take when their attempt to kill other passengers proves fruitless? Duct tape the hell out of those loons, let the psychiatrist deal with them on landing. Add them to the do-not-fly list while you're at it.
- mumblemumble 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Garry_Hoy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Garry_Hoy This seems like one of those situations where we don't want to just assume that what we think the window can handle is the same as what it can actually handle.
- garyfirestorm 5y agowhy should it be the design criteria? if people cannot behave, in a safety critical environment - those people shouldn't be allowed in that environment in future. no! the wing design won't change because a 200 lb man wants to jump on it on a whim. that is not its intended function and such failure modes should not be part of this conversation. 'hey lets make entire cockpit out of heavy steel, since we never know some pilot could lose his cool and break some buttons'
- jimbob45 5y agoI think that’s the real point of the duct tape - to prevent other passengers from taking matters into their own hands.