3 ms·

Not sure about SF arrogance but the whole “Your job is going to get outsourced to India don’t get into IT/Software Dev” thing has been around since the 90s. It’

by wil421 5y ago

Not sure about SF arrogance but the whole “Your job is going to get outsourced to India don’t get into IT/Software Dev” thing has been around since the 90s. It’s 20 years later and the job market is better than ever, salaries are better than ever, and a lot of companies who fully embraced the IT outsourcing trend are realizing it actually hurt them in the long run. Short term it helped but now they have lost their market place edge they once had. Also worked with a company who outsourced all their call centers to Eastern Europe from Scotland and other Northern European countries, their customers hated it. Not against outsourcing it’s gotta be a mixed bag. You’ll be extremely slow if you have to wait until tomorrow to get any answers.

codegeek 5y ago
If you know what you are doing by building an organic team in a foreign country, you can still get real bang for the buck. If you try the traditional outsourcing model by offloading shit to a 3rd party, you will get hurt.
- wil421 5y ago
  Agreed. There’s no way you can get away with not having a global team unless you’re a small company operating in a small market. The company I work for now has a team in India and the difference in skills is night and day compared to my last job. The turnover is much much less as well. I suspect they pay better and don’t rely on scummy 3rd party “coach you to pass the interview but have no real experience” providers.
- Jensson 5y ago
  Managers who know what they are doing are typically a lot more expensive than software engineers who know what they are doing. So the only reasonable way to outsource software engineering is to also outsource the corresponding management, and management don't want to do that.
nsonha 5y ago
distributed working is a totally different thing than outsourcing. We are talking about companies having more options for their mode/base of operation and talents. We are not talking about corporates sacrifying quality control by adding layers of managerment in other countries in an attempt to abstract away the development process.
- wil421 5y ago
  The parent comment said displace place jobs just like Chinese manufacturing did to US manufacturing.
jokethrowaway 5y ago
Outsourcing to India didn't work very well due to cultural differences. Communication was very hard, even when language wasn't a problem. People afraid to say they didn't understand something and trying to wing it with tragicomical results. People not raising issues until after something exploded not to offend you. I think outsourcing to Russia has some good potential but the level of English is still nowhere close, even in the new generations. Eastern Europe is more promising but English is a bit hit or miss. I see plenty of outsourcing to Eastern Europe from the UK. Similarly, I see more and more outsourcing to Latin America from the states. Europe is much closer to the States: if you outsource to the UK or Northern-mid Europe you get English speaking people who will act similarly to US employees. Sure you won't save 11/12 like in India but you will save a good half compared to SF, with the only hassle being the timezone. I think we haven't seen the last of outsourcing.

by wil421 5y ago

codegeek 5y ago

If you know what you are doing by building an organic team in a foreign country, you can still get real bang for the buck. If you try the traditional outsourcing model by offloading shit to a 3rd party, you will get hurt.

wil421 5y ago
Agreed. There’s no way you can get away with not having a global team unless you’re a small company operating in a small market. The company I work for now has a team in India and the difference in skills is night and day compared to my last job. The turnover is much much less as well. I suspect they pay better and don’t rely on scummy 3rd party “coach you to pass the interview but have no real experience” providers.
Jensson 5y ago
Managers who know what they are doing are typically a lot more expensive than software engineers who know what they are doing. So the only reasonable way to outsource software engineering is to also outsource the corresponding management, and management don't want to do that.

nsonha 5y ago

distributed working is a totally different thing than outsourcing. We are talking about companies having more options for their mode/base of operation and talents. We are not talking about corporates sacrifying quality control by adding layers of managerment in other countries in an attempt to abstract away the development process.

wil421 5y ago
The parent comment said displace place jobs just like Chinese manufacturing did to US manufacturing.

jokethrowaway 5y ago

Outsourcing to India didn't work very well due to cultural differences. Communication was very hard, even when language wasn't a problem. People afraid to say they didn't understand something and trying to wing it with tragicomical results. People not raising issues until after something exploded not to offend you. I think outsourcing to Russia has some good potential but the level of English is still nowhere close, even in the new generations. Eastern Europe is more promising but English is a bit hit or miss. I see plenty of outsourcing to Eastern Europe from the UK. Similarly, I see more and more outsourcing to Latin America from the states. Europe is much closer to the States: if you outsource to the UK or Northern-mid Europe you get English speaking people who will act similarly to US employees. Sure you won't save 11/12 like in India but you will save a good half compared to SF, with the only hassle being the timezone. I think we haven't seen the last of outsourcing.