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Duct tape is a bad look… but if it gets to the point where it seems necessary, I don’t see why not. It’s not like people are being duct toed to seats on a whim

• willis936 5y ago
  Is it a bad look? If they don't get into legal hot water then it seems like a powerful marketing tool.
  • gruez 5y ago
    > If they don't get into legal hot water I think that's what they're worried about, hence the notice.
• vlan0 5y ago
  >One of these passengers tried to kick out a window. Right? If someone attempts to cause structural damage at 30k feet, I'm going to stop that person with any means necessary.
  • relax88 5y ago
    Yeah, I would have zero hesitation choking that person out if they were trying to kick a window or open a door. Even if there is a risk of killing them.
    • Stevvo 5y ago
      Someone trying to kick through a window or open a door does not pose any threat to you. The door will not open. The window itself is strong enough to withstand any kick that someone could put on it, but that is largely irrelevant as there is the a scratch pane, and that additional window with the tiny hole in the bottom in front of it for additional protection. If you're holding a choke hold beyond the point someone has passed out, i.e. "risking killing them", then YOU are the danger to others in that situation, not mentally ill dude trying in futility to exit the aircraft at 36000ft.
      • relax88 5y ago
        There is a risk of killing someone regardless of how long you hold a choke hold. Obviously if you could restrain them it wouldn’t be necessary. Im also not sure what to make of your comments regarding windows and doors on airplanes. It seems the doors would be impossible to open at high enough altitude, but I’m not so sure about windows: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2243764/Man-arrested-punching-JetBlue-plane-window-allowed-sit-mother.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2243764/Man-arreste... I wonder if in this example it was just the interior layer of plastic/glass?
        • Stevvo 5y ago
          Doors including emergency exits are locked by the aircraft's systems when airborne. It's possible, though unlikely, the guy in the article made it through the middle plexiglass layer in addition to the inner layer which is only there to stop you from scratching the plexiglass; at 4mm thick it's certainly within the realm of human strength. However at 12mm the outer layer is comfortably beyond what a human could crack without weapons/tools.
      • trollski 5y ago
        exactly the crew in that situation should ductape the choker and let the other go on with his kicking since its harmless. oh yeah i forgot you never said you suggest anyone should be taped. apologies for the strawman.
    • throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      A 13yo kid? Because that's who was trying to kick out a window. That incident was a case of a kid throwing a tantrum. A choke hold is not the proper response to that. IMO, duck taping the little shit to the seat is a very appropriate response if the child is truly uncontrollable.
      • okprod 5y ago
        I'm in favor of the duct tape as well (as a step after requiring a minor's parents to manage them), but in these types of situations there isn't much time to assess and respond appropriately. For all anyone knows the 13 year old could have been attempting the next 9/11 in a coordinated effort.
        • lamontcg 5y ago
          I'm fairly certain that the next coordinated 9/11 attack won't involve unarmed 13 year olds.
          • okprod 5y ago
            Yea me too, I meant in a quick, tense situation sometimes it's hard to tell how old someone is
      • moate 5y ago
        Are you saying a 13 year old is incapable of kicking out a window or incapable of understand that kicking out a window is going to cause catastrophic consequences and therefore should be treated differently? What about this being a 13 year old is mitigating in your mind vs a middle-aged person?
        • throwaway0a5e 5y ago
          The kid is arguably too stupid to know better so taping him to a seat and making him look like an idiot is more appropriate (especially considering the parent asked for help in this case) and physical violence is less appropriate relative to an equivalent situation with someone old enough to know better.
    • mrfusion 5y ago
      You guys have really lost your minds on here.
  • Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    ... It was a child. A child "tried to kick out the window". I expect airline windows to be able to withstand the kick of a child. Even if they were an older child.
    • relax88 5y ago
      A child whose mother asked for help because the kid was fighting her and totally out of control. I don’t think you can reasonably expect people to sit there and do nothing in a situation where a 13 year old boy is overpowering his mother and kicking airplane windows.
      • alex7o 5y ago
        Wouldn't choke a child, but restraining and talking to him might/should help.
        • relax88 5y ago
          Yeah for sure. When I said I’d have zero hesitation choking someone out in my other comment I meant in a situation in which they could not be restrained. Teenage boys can be pretty big and strong, unlikely at 13 but some 16 year olds can be 6 feet tall and 180lbs. Like I’m definitely not sitting there going “oh well I guess since we couldn’t hold them down well just have to hope the window doesn’t break”.
      • Broken_Hippo 5y ago
        At the end of the day: It was still a child. The airplane windows should hold. Restraints are fine, if you really need them. Duct tape, though? It was still a child. Even at 13.
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  • tpmx 5y ago
    Is it possible to cause structural damage on a passenger aircraft window without tools? Seems like it should have been a design a criteria that it shouldn't be, at least not in x minutes.
    • willis936 5y ago
      The time to find out if a piece of plastic can handle a 100 lb bag of water slamming into it is not when that piece of plastic is keeping 100 people alive.
      • tpmx 5y ago
        I'm all for restraining any passenger that behaves that way, with or without duct tape. I'm mostly curious about whether there's a real risk or not of a passenger breaking a window without tools.
    • ASalazarMX 5y ago
      If you have a passenger so out of control it tries to break a window, who knows what other actions they will take when their attempt to kill other passengers proves fruitless? Duct tape the hell out of those loons, let the psychiatrist deal with them on landing. Add them to the do-not-fly list while you're at it.
    • mumblemumble 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Garry_Hoy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Garry_Hoy This seems like one of those situations where we don't want to just assume that what we think the window can handle is the same as what it can actually handle.
    • garyfirestorm 5y ago
      why should it be the design criteria? if people cannot behave, in a safety critical environment - those people shouldn't be allowed in that environment in future. no! the wing design won't change because a 200 lb man wants to jump on it on a whim. that is not its intended function and such failure modes should not be part of this conversation. 'hey lets make entire cockpit out of heavy steel, since we never know some pilot could lose his cool and break some buttons'
  • jimbob45 5y ago
    I think that’s the real point of the duct tape - to prevent other passengers from taking matters into their own hands.
• mc32 5y ago
  Instead of being a bad look for the airline, it should be a bad look for the perp and a good look for the company which refuses to let unruly passengers increase the dangers of flying in confined space within a fragile vehicle. Behave or lose your privileges and you get to pay 3x next time you try to get on a flight.
  • spywaregorilla 5y ago
    If someone tries to kick out a window I don't think they should be allowed to fly ever again
    • deleted 5y ago
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    • jetrink 5y ago
      For some additional context, the person in that story was 13 years old.
      • mc32 5y ago
        This hasn’t been the only person restrained due to unruliness, however it’s been the only one where we know the person was trying to kick out a window —there have been others attempting to open exits. Also I don’t know this 13-yo. Some can be small some can be large.
        • deleted 5y ago
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      • fsvavsd 5y ago
        13 years olds should be mature enough to know how to behave.
    • cudgy 5y ago
      If someone tries to drive while impaired, they should never be able to drive again. If someone drives their car at dangerous speeds, they should never be able to drive again. If someone overdraws their account, they should never be able to bank again. If someone is caught on their bicycle without a helmet, they should never be able to ride a bike again …
• tyingq 5y ago
  If the crew doesn't act decisively, the other passengers will. The duct tape seems fine to me. Over the mouth seems dangerous, but I wasn't there...I can see where it might have been the only reasonable choice.
• Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  One of these passengers tried to kick out a window. This was a child. A child tried to kick out a window. And to be absolutely frank: I fully expect airplane windows to be able to withstand a kick from a child. I understand it probably wasn't on a whim, but surely, there are better options in this case.
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  • alpaca128 5y ago
    > I fully expect airplane windows to be able to withstand a kick from a child. Would you bet your life on it? Inconveniencing an out of control teenager for a few hours to ensure the safety of all passengers seems like a pretty sane response.
  • tdsamardzhiev 5y ago
    > A child tried to kick out a window. A 13-year-old boy. If he was 3, that'd be an acceptable excuse. At 13.. not so much. Even if he had no clue what might happen, he surely knew that vandalism is bad. > I fully expect airplane windows to be able to withstand a kick from a child. I know a guy who was 6'9 and 240lbs of lean muscle at 13. It's an extreme example, but the point still stands. If I were on that plane, I sure as hell won't suggest to wait and see how many kicks it takes him. > but surely, there are better options in this case They obviously didn't have, and it's the kind of situation where you have to restrain that person immediately. No time to reflect on your options. Still, what's your solution? Here's mine: Any person past the age of 7 who throws a tantrum gets 500 hours of community service.
• duxup 5y ago
  I think distantly like employees confronting a robber ... it's hard to define good rules to tell an employee when to do that / you're worried about their judgment. So you just say "hey don't do that".
• Spartan-S63 5y ago
  I think what it comes down to is that there are restraint systems that exist that are better than duct tape (and look better to other passengers). Why aren't these airlines carrying them as standard equipment?
  • ceejayoz 5y ago
    I was under the impression flight crews had a set or two of handcuffs onboard. The memo seems to indicate something for this purpose is. > Instead, he is asking crews to use the items aboard flights designed to keep flyers at their seats – and prevent them from becoming a hazard to the flight or other passengers. I'd also note the Frontier incident that made the news was passengers duct taping the miscreant, not the crew. If I were a flight attendant in this situation, I might pull the "oh, whoops, dropped a roll of duct tape... would one of you grab that for me?" tactic.
  • kjaftaedi 5y ago
    Because then you have to officially incorporate physical combat into the job profile of cabin crew.
  • ASalazarMX 5y ago
    I hope those restraints include a gag to stop them from screaming for hours, then duct tape would be truly unneeded.
    • mnw21cam 5y ago
      Usually, if something really bizarre like this happens inside the cabin, the plane will divert to the nearest airport. Unless they're in the middle of flying over a large ocean, it's unlikely to be hours.
• ransom1538 5y ago
  "One of these passengers tried to kick out a window" I am duct taping this person. Then when someone says I should not do this, I am duct taping that person.