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> It doesn't matter at all That's not true: it will cause an inconvenience to Berkeley residents using gas-powered vehicles. It's not definitive, but it has an

> It doesn't matter at all That's not true: it will cause an inconvenience to Berkeley residents using gas-powered vehicles. It's not definitive, but it has an effect on stimulating energy transition.

whatshisface 5y ago
I'm sure the gas stations in Emeryville are very happy that the residents of Berkeley have to burn all that extra gas to drive to the big box stores outside of town.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Now imagine more cities starting passing these laws. Gee, before you know it, it's less trouble to have an electric car.
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    I think it would be more effective to have cities pass laws that say what follows: "We will ban gas stations when more than m out of n nearby cities have either banned gas stations or passed this law."
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      I could see that being more effective or less, but either way I don't think it's totally pointless.
      - whatshisface 5y ago
        I can understand your point about marginal inconvenience having a marginal benefit, but I think that car use may be so inflexible (I know that I literally need my car and would be willing to put up with any conceivable inconvenience law because I have to) that inconvenience laws, especially ones with direct gas-burning effects on anyone who keeps their car, can easily be net negative even for small increases in fuel consumption.
        emodendroket 5y ago
        Right now, even if you only ever travel short distances and an electric car would be totally suitable for you, the path of least resistance is to buy a gas car. It seems smart to try and shift that calculus.
        dublinben 5y ago
        Car use (as measured by Vehicle Miles Traveled) is more elastic than you may think. There were pronounced dips during the oil price spikes of 1974, 1979, and 2008, showing that the price at the pump has a direct effect on how much people drive.[0] Last year we obviously saw an even more significant decline as many people stayed home during the pandemic.[1] There's also more positive, lasting ways of reducing VMT like improving alternatives, introducing congestion charges, or replacing gas taxes with cost per mile fees.[2] [0]https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10315 https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10315 [1]https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/us-driving-last-year-was-lowest-two-decades-new-data-show https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/us-driving-last-year-was-l... [2]https://www.urbanismnext.org/what-to-do/congestion-vmt-reduction-mode-choice https://www.urbanismnext.org/what-to-do/congestion-vmt-reduc...

whatshisface 5y ago

I'm sure the gas stations in Emeryville are very happy that the residents of Berkeley have to burn all that extra gas to drive to the big box stores outside of town.

emodendroket 5y ago
Now imagine more cities starting passing these laws. Gee, before you know it, it's less trouble to have an electric car.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  I think it would be more effective to have cities pass laws that say what follows: "We will ban gas stations when more than m out of n nearby cities have either banned gas stations or passed this law."
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    I could see that being more effective or less, but either way I don't think it's totally pointless.
    - whatshisface 5y ago
      I can understand your point about marginal inconvenience having a marginal benefit, but I think that car use may be so inflexible (I know that I literally need my car and would be willing to put up with any conceivable inconvenience law because I have to) that inconvenience laws, especially ones with direct gas-burning effects on anyone who keeps their car, can easily be net negative even for small increases in fuel consumption.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        Right now, even if you only ever travel short distances and an electric car would be totally suitable for you, the path of least resistance is to buy a gas car. It seems smart to try and shift that calculus.
      - dublinben 5y ago
        Car use (as measured by Vehicle Miles Traveled) is more elastic than you may think. There were pronounced dips during the oil price spikes of 1974, 1979, and 2008, showing that the price at the pump has a direct effect on how much people drive.[0] Last year we obviously saw an even more significant decline as many people stayed home during the pandemic.[1] There's also more positive, lasting ways of reducing VMT like improving alternatives, introducing congestion charges, or replacing gas taxes with cost per mile fees.[2] [0]https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10315 https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10315 [1]https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/us-driving-last-year-was-lowest-two-decades-new-data-show https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/us-driving-last-year-was-l... [2]https://www.urbanismnext.org/what-to-do/congestion-vmt-reduction-mode-choice https://www.urbanismnext.org/what-to-do/congestion-vmt-reduc...