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The quote from the Apple executive is misleading to outright dishonest. > “Security researchers are constantly able to introspect what's happening in Apple’s [
by nullc 5y ago
The quote from the Apple executive is misleading to outright dishonest.
> “Security researchers are constantly able to introspect what's happening in Apple’s [phone] software,” Apple vice president Craig Federighi said in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “So if any changes were made that were to expand the scope of this in some way—in a way that we had committed to not doing—there’s verifiability, they can spot that that's happening.”
Apple uses complex cryptography to shield themselves and their list providers from accountability. You cannot determine if they've included non-child-abuse images in the database through inspection.
- djrogers 5y agoNo, but you can verify that only photos uploaded to iCloud are scanned, and can verify that photo metadata beyond the security voucher is not generated or sent to anyone but Apple.
- nullc 5y agoThe former, yes. The latter no: because Apple can send it on further beyond your ability to observe. :)
- troyvit 5y agoYeah but once you move something from your personal device to a cloud operated by a private entity why would you expect privacy anyway?
- blew_job 5y agoHorrible counter argument, what's the point of Apple advertising privacy ad nauseam if your shit isn't safe and secure for your eyes only.
- croes 5y agoHow can you verify what Apple does on its iPhones?
- imwillofficial 5y agoApple has special iPhones for security researchers.
- echelon 5y agoWhy can't we all be security researchers? Why are we defending this move by Apple? Richard Stallman was right about everything. In twenty years, people will be standing up for Apple as they upload your health data to your employer and insurance provider. "It won't matter if you eat right and exercise," is a quote I expect to hear.
- intricatedetail 5y ago"And even if it matters, so what, everyone does it"
- imwillofficial 5y agoBecause most people don't give a fuck on this topic. It ticks the boxes we need ticked. You're different, that's cool. Shout it from the rooftops. I support you.
- kmeisthax 5y agoYes, but they're loaner units primarily intended to contractually obligate security researchers to work for Apple. I trust a security researcher using an official Apple device about as well as a Trump-funded 2020 election audit. Apple uses the technical protections on the phone to make it very difficult to actually even be in a position to do security research without also being NDA'd. There is no owner override like there is on, say, M1 Macs. Apple's position is that nobody but them loads OS code onto your iPhone. Not even you - and you can't practically do any research or auditing on things like the CSAM scanner without having the ability to poke around in the OS. If Apple had an owner override on iOS-fused devices, then we could load our own kernels, call into the neuralhash framework, and so on to actually validate that the system does what it says. But that would also mean that Epic could sell Fortnite skins outside of the App Store, and we can't have that. So instead we need to gag and muzzle security researchers... which also makes them no longer independent auditors of the iOS security model.
- gjsman-1000 5y agoNobody seems to remember that the EARN IT Act nearly passed in a bipartisan vote last year in the US. Apple's CSAM Scanning is better than that potentially coming back.
- intricatedetail 5y agoIt's crazy that people argue what is being scanned, but the very fact that it will take place at all. Imagine a landlord coming to your place and looking around for drugs. This is insane violation of privacy regardless of intent.
- pjerem 5y agos/your landlord/your house maker
- SuchAnonMuchWow 5y agoThe feature is only supposed to be about pictures stored on iCloud, so the landlord comparison is more correct. When Apple will start analyzing pictures on iphones and not in the cloud, then your substitution will become correct.
- croes 5y agoThey scan the images on the iPhone before they are in the cloud. That's the whole point of Apple's system.
- bastardoperator 5y agoLandlords have the right to enter their property at any time given a "reasonable" notice which is typically 24 hours and almost all states have provisions for "inspecting the premises". I don't have to imagine, this happens almost daily.
- sucrose 5y agoHypothetically you could remove the drugs and be sure they're gone before inspection. Images being "deleted" from the cloud... not so sure
- yencabulator 5y agoYou'd have a darn good case for suing your landlord if they started going through your drawers, though. The inspection is for condition of the building and fixtures.