4 ms·

That's really sidestepping the issue, isn't it? It's not just about respect and freedom. It's about the externalities created by many people living in large hom

That's really sidestepping the issue, isn't it? It's not just about respect and freedom. It's about the externalities created by many people living in large homes.

captainredbeard 5y ago
Maybe
kiba 5y ago
Not really possible to make much choices, when zoning laws made many things illegal, such as mandating minimum lot size and banning higher density development and so forth.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Sure, the world of infinite choice is a fantasy anyway. But even if it weren't, I don't think the argument would be very strong.
bradlys 5y ago
The externalities don’t come from living in large homes. They come from the use of non-renewable resources. Focus on that dude. Stop trying to make everyone live in an SRO. You can easily give everyone a McMansion and live in some sub 1.5C utopia as long as we focus on where we get our energy and resources from. Stop focusing on consumption quantity because it just sounds like envy.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Come on, "you're just jealous" is the best argument you can come up with? You'd be closer to home if you called me a hypocrite but these are just ways to sidestep the question at hand by attacking me personally. Heat pumps are much more efficient, let's grant, but there's no answer with zero waste heat. I think there's a real question whether, no matter how much everything's electrified, a model where everyone rides a single-occupant car nearly everywhere they go is really sustainable.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    I never said you were jealous. I said you sound like you're envious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPhrTOg1RUk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPhrTOg1RUk - maybe watch this (it is quite enjoyable!) and it could change your mind about how you think of envy. Heat pumps just move heat around... They do not create heat. If they did - we'd have some violations of laws. All they're doing is going to transfer geothermal, solar, wind, etc. power into heat transfer - which is transferring heat from outdoors into your home... Which then goes back outdoors at some point. There isn't any "heat" creation here. What model are you speaking of where they claim electric cars are not viable for the future? (Assuming renewable energy sources and sustainable use of natural resources, etc.)
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      I'm not watching a 2-hour video to figure out what you think the distinction between jealousy and envy is. The point is, I'm living the same lifestyle as many other Americans but I'm not sure we can do it forever. I'm not going to dispute the point about heat pumps more because I don't know enough about them to argue credibly about it. Maybe you're right and it's a perfect solution to the problem. > What model are you speaking of where they claim electric cars are not viable for the future? (Assuming renewable energy sources and sustainable use of natural resources, etc.) That assumes away the problem I think. Is it really inconceivable that we're going to start hitting limits to resources, especially if we're doubling down on cars which all have their own large batteries, sprawling asphalt, and all the rest of it? It seems really hard to imagine to me that we're going to chance on technology that makes it just as sustainable for everyone to live in a McMansion and drive an F-150 an hour to work as for people to ride trains or bicycles and live in denser housing. Certainly we could do much better than now before we started to nip at that stuff but I feel like there have to be limits. If it's so easy and we have all the answers I have to wonder why all the kicking and screaming to get there.
      - bradlys 5y ago
        It doesn't assume away the problem. It is the problem. The issue isn't the lifestyle. The issue is how the resources are gathered and how the power is produced. Those are the issues - the lifestyle isn't the issue. You have been sucked into believing by corporations that you are the issue but it's the corporations who are the issue. They want you to take personal responsibility for their issues. Everything is pushed onto the end user and the individual as responsibility rather than a corporation to do things in a manner that is best for us all. You know why? Cause that's good for the corporations! They can do horrible things and not have to deal with any of the externalities that they're creating and rake in the profit! These strategies have been mainstream for well over 50 years now. Keep believing that personal responsibility is really the key to solving climate change but it will continue to do nothing and mean nothing. The responsibility is within your governmental body to take over how corporations are producing their products, harvesting resources, generating power, and the externalities that their products create.

That's really sidestepping the issue, isn't it? It's not just about respect and freedom. It's about the externalities created by many people living in large homes.

captainredbeard 5y ago

Maybe

kiba 5y ago

Not really possible to make much choices, when zoning laws made many things illegal, such as mandating minimum lot size and banning higher density development and so forth.

emodendroket 5y ago
Sure, the world of infinite choice is a fantasy anyway. But even if it weren't, I don't think the argument would be very strong.

bradlys 5y ago

The externalities don’t come from living in large homes. They come from the use of non-renewable resources. Focus on that dude. Stop trying to make everyone live in an SRO. You can easily give everyone a McMansion and live in some sub 1.5C utopia as long as we focus on where we get our energy and resources from. Stop focusing on consumption quantity because it just sounds like envy.

emodendroket 5y ago
Come on, "you're just jealous" is the best argument you can come up with? You'd be closer to home if you called me a hypocrite but these are just ways to sidestep the question at hand by attacking me personally. Heat pumps are much more efficient, let's grant, but there's no answer with zero waste heat. I think there's a real question whether, no matter how much everything's electrified, a model where everyone rides a single-occupant car nearly everywhere they go is really sustainable.
- bradlys 5y ago
  I never said you were jealous. I said you sound like you're envious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPhrTOg1RUk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPhrTOg1RUk - maybe watch this (it is quite enjoyable!) and it could change your mind about how you think of envy. Heat pumps just move heat around... They do not create heat. If they did - we'd have some violations of laws. All they're doing is going to transfer geothermal, solar, wind, etc. power into heat transfer - which is transferring heat from outdoors into your home... Which then goes back outdoors at some point. There isn't any "heat" creation here. What model are you speaking of where they claim electric cars are not viable for the future? (Assuming renewable energy sources and sustainable use of natural resources, etc.)
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    I'm not watching a 2-hour video to figure out what you think the distinction between jealousy and envy is. The point is, I'm living the same lifestyle as many other Americans but I'm not sure we can do it forever. I'm not going to dispute the point about heat pumps more because I don't know enough about them to argue credibly about it. Maybe you're right and it's a perfect solution to the problem. > What model are you speaking of where they claim electric cars are not viable for the future? (Assuming renewable energy sources and sustainable use of natural resources, etc.) That assumes away the problem I think. Is it really inconceivable that we're going to start hitting limits to resources, especially if we're doubling down on cars which all have their own large batteries, sprawling asphalt, and all the rest of it? It seems really hard to imagine to me that we're going to chance on technology that makes it just as sustainable for everyone to live in a McMansion and drive an F-150 an hour to work as for people to ride trains or bicycles and live in denser housing. Certainly we could do much better than now before we started to nip at that stuff but I feel like there have to be limits. If it's so easy and we have all the answers I have to wonder why all the kicking and screaming to get there.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      It doesn't assume away the problem. It is the problem. The issue isn't the lifestyle. The issue is how the resources are gathered and how the power is produced. Those are the issues - the lifestyle isn't the issue. You have been sucked into believing by corporations that you are the issue but it's the corporations who are the issue. They want you to take personal responsibility for their issues. Everything is pushed onto the end user and the individual as responsibility rather than a corporation to do things in a manner that is best for us all. You know why? Cause that's good for the corporations! They can do horrible things and not have to deal with any of the externalities that they're creating and rake in the profit! These strategies have been mainstream for well over 50 years now. Keep believing that personal responsibility is really the key to solving climate change but it will continue to do nothing and mean nothing. The responsibility is within your governmental body to take over how corporations are producing their products, harvesting resources, generating power, and the externalities that their products create.