4 ms·

as someone who rides a motorcycle this sort of legislation is infuriating. gas stations are food, rest, and a chance to get my bearings with a map. Frankly Ca

as someone who rides a motorcycle this sort of legislation is infuriating. gas stations are food, rest, and a chance to get my bearings with a map. Frankly California's more gilded counties like Sonoma have a perverse incentive to reduce gas stations: it reduces congregation and attendance by the homeless. This feels like the "cashless" argument playing out all over again. Sure, its perhaps easier and more efficient for the business to simply refuse to accept cash but at the end of the day its a poor people ban.

emodendroket 5y ago
I frankly have become very suspicious of arguments that go "poor people who are not me also happen to like this thing I like, so any attempt to curtail it is discriminatory." Is there something about a gas pump that makes poor people more likely to congregate than a similar facility without? An electric charging station, for instance, would presumably be similar and might even be more likely to have places where you can hang out since it takes longer.
- ravenstine 5y ago
  Probably that people getting out of their cars is an easy opportunity to ask for cash. Happens all the time to me in LA. It isn't a good reason to keep gas stations arpund, though. (however, i do think there aren't many good reasons besides if America actually embraced clean energy)
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    Yeah, as you say, I have a hard time accepting giving people panhandling opportunities as a good rationale for a national network of gas stations.
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  It is in the category of "Think of the children", "Dats racist" etc. You just say those words, get an emotional reaction.
- elif 5y ago
  A high turnover rate of strangers handling their wallets. Also a ginormous sunshade and legal occupation can be obtained for a $1 soda or lotto ticket. Superchargers have nothing to do with financial transactions. You can't buy a soda or lotto ticket and claim to belong there.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    I can't really see why you couldn't have chargers attached to a convenience store or restaurant. It would seem to make a lot of sense.
    - elif 5y ago
      Superchargers are almost always next to a restaurant. I've never seen one near a convenience store.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        In a world where electric cars were the most common means of transportation wouldn't there be a need for chargers about as widespread as gas stations now? I am having a hard time seeing why it wouldn't take a similar form. Perhaps there would be somewhat fewer because you can fit some in restaurants, stores, and other places, but I don't really imagine them eliminating the category.
        elif 5y ago
        the difference is EV owners only really use chargers when they are road tripping. 95%+ of their charge comes from home so the charging infrastructure can be 95% smaller than gas infrastructure and still basically function.
Lendal 5y ago
Don't worry. Most of the Tesla superchargers in my area are located on the back side of gas stations. Pumps in the front, store in the middle, chargers in the back. I believe in 10 years they will be building gas stations with the chargers in the front, store in the middle, pumps in the back. EV drivers have even more need for someplace to hang out/browse for 10-20 minutes or so. Not everyone wants to sit in their car while charging.
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  The law specifically does not ban EV chargers. Gas stations in general are very polluting, for both the ground and noxious fumes. Because of this, in CA they are already banned 300 ft (~90m) from any sensitive uses like schools or playgrounds, and even then there is evidence that this perimeter is not enough.
- elif 5y ago
  Yes let me go breath air with strangers instead of watching netflix in the AC in a chair optimized for long durations
globular-toast 5y ago
Without society there would be no motorcycles, no gas and no roads. You have to work with society if you want nice things. When change happens, sometimes you benefit disproportionately and sometimes you suffer. It's just the way it is. You don't actually need to fill up with gas in order to stop and eat. This doesn't seem as bad as you seem to think. It's just change.
moate 5y ago
So if the gas stations go away, why wouldn't they be replaced by convenience stores/rest stops? Like how does "we're getting rid of the gas pumps" ONLY translate to "we're getting rid of all the other revenue generating facility that accompanies that gas pump"? I could MAYBE understand the argument that the pumps help subsidize the cost of the convenience store and you'd see X% of locations close with no replacement taking over the location, but the whole point is that we have to make a choice between jobs + status quo or change + less climate impact. TL;dr- I'm pretty sure we have enough gas stations at this point to meet demand.

emodendroket 5y ago

I frankly have become very suspicious of arguments that go "poor people who are not me also happen to like this thing I like, so any attempt to curtail it is discriminatory." Is there something about a gas pump that makes poor people more likely to congregate than a similar facility without? An electric charging station, for instance, would presumably be similar and might even be more likely to have places where you can hang out since it takes longer.

ravenstine 5y ago
Probably that people getting out of their cars is an easy opportunity to ask for cash. Happens all the time to me in LA. It isn't a good reason to keep gas stations arpund, though. (however, i do think there aren't many good reasons besides if America actually embraced clean energy)
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Yeah, as you say, I have a hard time accepting giving people panhandling opportunities as a good rationale for a national network of gas stations.
gameswithgo 5y ago
It is in the category of "Think of the children", "Dats racist" etc. You just say those words, get an emotional reaction.
elif 5y ago
A high turnover rate of strangers handling their wallets. Also a ginormous sunshade and legal occupation can be obtained for a $1 soda or lotto ticket. Superchargers have nothing to do with financial transactions. You can't buy a soda or lotto ticket and claim to belong there.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  I can't really see why you couldn't have chargers attached to a convenience store or restaurant. It would seem to make a lot of sense.
  - elif 5y ago
    Superchargers are almost always next to a restaurant. I've never seen one near a convenience store.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      In a world where electric cars were the most common means of transportation wouldn't there be a need for chargers about as widespread as gas stations now? I am having a hard time seeing why it wouldn't take a similar form. Perhaps there would be somewhat fewer because you can fit some in restaurants, stores, and other places, but I don't really imagine them eliminating the category.
      - elif 5y ago
        the difference is EV owners only really use chargers when they are road tripping. 95%+ of their charge comes from home so the charging infrastructure can be 95% smaller than gas infrastructure and still basically function.

Lendal 5y ago

Don't worry. Most of the Tesla superchargers in my area are located on the back side of gas stations. Pumps in the front, store in the middle, chargers in the back. I believe in 10 years they will be building gas stations with the chargers in the front, store in the middle, pumps in the back. EV drivers have even more need for someplace to hang out/browse for 10-20 minutes or so. Not everyone wants to sit in their car while charging.

bobthepanda 5y ago
The law specifically does not ban EV chargers. Gas stations in general are very polluting, for both the ground and noxious fumes. Because of this, in CA they are already banned 300 ft (~90m) from any sensitive uses like schools or playgrounds, and even then there is evidence that this perimeter is not enough.
elif 5y ago
Yes let me go breath air with strangers instead of watching netflix in the AC in a chair optimized for long durations

globular-toast 5y ago

Without society there would be no motorcycles, no gas and no roads. You have to work with society if you want nice things. When change happens, sometimes you benefit disproportionately and sometimes you suffer. It's just the way it is. You don't actually need to fill up with gas in order to stop and eat. This doesn't seem as bad as you seem to think. It's just change.

moate 5y ago

So if the gas stations go away, why wouldn't they be replaced by convenience stores/rest stops? Like how does "we're getting rid of the gas pumps" ONLY translate to "we're getting rid of all the other revenue generating facility that accompanies that gas pump"? I could MAYBE understand the argument that the pumps help subsidize the cost of the convenience store and you'd see X% of locations close with no replacement taking over the location, but the whole point is that we have to make a choice between jobs + status quo or change + less climate impact. TL;dr- I'm pretty sure we have enough gas stations at this point to meet demand.