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I'm impressed by everything about this project, but the idea of re-writing everything from scratch would seem to doom this project to obscurity. No? How can an

I'm impressed by everything about this project, but the idea of re-writing everything from scratch would seem to doom this project to obscurity. No? How can any open-source project compete if it doesn't lean on other open-source projects? Am I missing something? This approach seems to guarantee that they can do a handful of things better than anyone else (because they control the whole stack), but not enough things to ever be truly complete OS for any given market segment. Unless 1000 developers fall in love and choose to participate and compensate for the absence of other OS code, I don't see how this can grow sustainably. I'd love to be wrong, though.

lawl 5y ago
> How can any open-source project compete if it doesn't lean on other open-source projects? Am I missing something? It doesn't want to compete. It's a system for them, by them, based on the things they like.
Deukhoofd 5y ago
You'd be surprised by how many developers fell in love and chose to participate. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pulse/monthly https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pulse/monthly
michaelgrafl 5y ago
This project feels more like a lover-letter to me than an attempt to compete against other operating systems. I really dig it, although I don't expect to ever use it productively. And I love that the development is documented on YouTube.
Santosh83 5y ago
From what I understand, they are porting some established software like Qt and GCC, and presumably if there is enough interest and volunteers, more applications. However they also aim to write a core set of apps specially for Serenity from scratch, so it seems like the best of both worlds to me: a set of native, integrated programs designed to showcase the OS's specialities, with ports of popular FOSS programs, and since Serenity does aim to be "Unix-like", it shouldn't be too hard. The incumbents in the field are absolutely overwhelming in their existing functionality, which makes it an extremely steep slope to climb for an upstart, unless they aim to fulfil a specialised niche. Linux struggled for years with lack of drivers. That's always the one of the chief roadblocks. If the OS can drive a broad range of hardware, then automatically users and ports of software will happen, but if it can only recognise a few generic devices then it will remain hobbyist. But thanks to the complexity of modern hardware, the task of even adapting Linux's drivers would be an enormous undertaking.
hnlmorg 5y ago
> Unless 1000 developers fall in love and choose to participate They're already half way there :) Plus the goals of this isn't to be another Linux or Windows or whatever. It's to be an opinionated platform that's personal to the developers. That means even as long as there is just one developer on it, then the project is succeeding in its goal.
- nickelcitymario 5y ago
  > They're already half way there :) There's 84 contributors, but over 500 pull requests. That's not the same thing. But: I hear you (and all the others) on the point that the purpose is just to create something cool and fun, not to solve any specific need in the market. That's cool and interesting. It'll probably never become an OS that I want to use productively, but it's still cool and there's nothing wrong with that.
breakfastduck 5y ago
Compete for what? It's an OS being build from scratch born from the desire to do it, and to have all things in it built from scratch. The project has immense activity. I absolutely HATE this kind of comment, with it being especially annoying to read on hacker news. Why the hell does everything have to be about gaining a market segment. Why can't something be for the joy of it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- incanus77 5y ago
  This. Linux wasn’t made to compete, either. Nor was PHP. Or even Perl. Serenity hearkens to a time when people made — and shared — things out of passion and the drive to create and refine. It’s what drew me to software development in the first place — an internet-enabled open playground of passion, trial and error, learning, and making.
- city41 5y ago
  I totally agree with you, don't get me wrong. But I can't help but feel a little sad knowing SerenityOS will never be my daily driver. I feel the same way about Haiku OS.
  - nickelcitymario 5y ago
    This was the point I was trying to make. You made it better.
  - breakfastduck 5y ago
    There's nothing stopping you adding the bits its missing to be your daily driver.
- nickelcitymario 5y ago
  "Hate" seems a bit harsh. I started out by saying how much I love everything about the project. If it's not intended to gain mass adoption, then that's fine. I see from some comments that it was started as a way to keep the original maker's mind busy during recovery. I respect that. It doesn't HAVE to be about gaining market share. But when I see a really cool project, it's hard not to immediately look at what would prevent me from using it or what might prevent it from gaining mass adoption. To your point about being annoyed by seeing this on hacker news... you do realize this is a forum maintained by a VC firm, right? This is kinda the place for discussing how new ideas in tech can grow and be disruptive to the market. I'm not saying that's the only thing we can discuss, but it seems weird of you to hate it when this topic comes up. It's an underlying subtext to everything on HN. Am I wrong?
nonameiguess 5y ago
It's named "serenity" OS after the serenity prayer recited in AA meetings, because the developer started this as a way to keep his mind occupied to overcome alcoholism. I think it has been a wild success for that purpose and is one of the more beautiful examples of using software for the promotion of personal excellence rather than commercial excellence. Obscurity is not an impediment to accomplishing this goal.
- natechols 5y ago
  I too was reading the article and wondering "why..." until I saw the mention of addiction. This is an excellent reason to write a complete operating system from scratch, congratulations to the author.
ThrowawayR2 5y ago
> "... the idea of re-writing everything from scratch would seem to doom this project to obscurity. No?" I'm sure the same was said of Linux 0.01 in the '90s, which was also the golden age of proprietary UNIXes. "From small beginnings come great things", as they say.

lawl 5y ago

> How can any open-source project compete if it doesn't lean on other open-source projects? Am I missing something? It doesn't want to compete. It's a system for them, by them, based on the things they like.

Deukhoofd 5y ago

You'd be surprised by how many developers fell in love and chose to participate. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pulse/monthly https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pulse/monthly

michaelgrafl 5y ago

This project feels more like a lover-letter to me than an attempt to compete against other operating systems. I really dig it, although I don't expect to ever use it productively. And I love that the development is documented on YouTube.

Santosh83 5y ago

From what I understand, they are porting some established software like Qt and GCC, and presumably if there is enough interest and volunteers, more applications. However they also aim to write a core set of apps specially for Serenity from scratch, so it seems like the best of both worlds to me: a set of native, integrated programs designed to showcase the OS's specialities, with ports of popular FOSS programs, and since Serenity does aim to be "Unix-like", it shouldn't be too hard. The incumbents in the field are absolutely overwhelming in their existing functionality, which makes it an extremely steep slope to climb for an upstart, unless they aim to fulfil a specialised niche. Linux struggled for years with lack of drivers. That's always the one of the chief roadblocks. If the OS can drive a broad range of hardware, then automatically users and ports of software will happen, but if it can only recognise a few generic devices then it will remain hobbyist. But thanks to the complexity of modern hardware, the task of even adapting Linux's drivers would be an enormous undertaking.

hnlmorg 5y ago

> Unless 1000 developers fall in love and choose to participate They're already half way there :) Plus the goals of this isn't to be another Linux or Windows or whatever. It's to be an opinionated platform that's personal to the developers. That means even as long as there is just one developer on it, then the project is succeeding in its goal.

nickelcitymario 5y ago
> They're already half way there :) There's 84 contributors, but over 500 pull requests. That's not the same thing. But: I hear you (and all the others) on the point that the purpose is just to create something cool and fun, not to solve any specific need in the market. That's cool and interesting. It'll probably never become an OS that I want to use productively, but it's still cool and there's nothing wrong with that.

breakfastduck 5y ago

Compete for what? It's an OS being build from scratch born from the desire to do it, and to have all things in it built from scratch. The project has immense activity. I absolutely HATE this kind of comment, with it being especially annoying to read on hacker news. Why the hell does everything have to be about gaining a market segment. Why can't something be for the joy of it.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
incanus77 5y ago
This. Linux wasn’t made to compete, either. Nor was PHP. Or even Perl. Serenity hearkens to a time when people made — and shared — things out of passion and the drive to create and refine. It’s what drew me to software development in the first place — an internet-enabled open playground of passion, trial and error, learning, and making.
city41 5y ago
I totally agree with you, don't get me wrong. But I can't help but feel a little sad knowing SerenityOS will never be my daily driver. I feel the same way about Haiku OS.
- nickelcitymario 5y ago
  This was the point I was trying to make. You made it better.
- breakfastduck 5y ago
  There's nothing stopping you adding the bits its missing to be your daily driver.
nickelcitymario 5y ago
"Hate" seems a bit harsh. I started out by saying how much I love everything about the project. If it's not intended to gain mass adoption, then that's fine. I see from some comments that it was started as a way to keep the original maker's mind busy during recovery. I respect that. It doesn't HAVE to be about gaining market share. But when I see a really cool project, it's hard not to immediately look at what would prevent me from using it or what might prevent it from gaining mass adoption. To your point about being annoyed by seeing this on hacker news... you do realize this is a forum maintained by a VC firm, right? This is kinda the place for discussing how new ideas in tech can grow and be disruptive to the market. I'm not saying that's the only thing we can discuss, but it seems weird of you to hate it when this topic comes up. It's an underlying subtext to everything on HN. Am I wrong?

nonameiguess 5y ago

It's named "serenity" OS after the serenity prayer recited in AA meetings, because the developer started this as a way to keep his mind occupied to overcome alcoholism. I think it has been a wild success for that purpose and is one of the more beautiful examples of using software for the promotion of personal excellence rather than commercial excellence. Obscurity is not an impediment to accomplishing this goal.

natechols 5y ago
I too was reading the article and wondering "why..." until I saw the mention of addiction. This is an excellent reason to write a complete operating system from scratch, congratulations to the author.

ThrowawayR2 5y ago

> "... the idea of re-writing everything from scratch would seem to doom this project to obscurity. No?" I'm sure the same was said of Linux 0.01 in the '90s, which was also the golden age of proprietary UNIXes. "From small beginnings come great things", as they say.