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Testimony is seen as wonky in all kinds of cases. The problem with testimony about rape, however, is that, in those cases, supporting evidence is rarer than usu

Testimony is seen as wonky in all kinds of cases. The problem with testimony about rape, however, is that, in those cases, supporting evidence is rarer than usual and even when it exists, proving it was non-consensual at the time is even harder (especially when relationships or affairs are involved).

Ensorceled 5y ago
Yes, rape is more difficult to prove than a number of other crimes. That is no reason to jump to a default "assume the accusation is false".
- ziml77 5y ago
  The reason to default to that is because a principle of our legal system is that people are innocent until proven guilty. On top of that proving someone guilty requires going beyond reasonable doubt.
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    The principle is the defendant is innocent until proven guilty, NOT that the accuser is making a false accusation. There is a reason the verdict is "not guilty" instead of "innocent". After a not guilty verdict the legal system still does not assume the accuser was making a false accusation.
    - Sebb767 5y ago
      > There is a reason the verdict is "not guilty" instead of "innocent". Both verdicts exists, actually; the latter one is just far rarer (since it is both harder to prove and usually not what is argued about).
      - Ensorceled 5y ago
        Yes, and almost always a either a case of mistaken identity or emerging malfeasance by either witnesses or prosecution. Ironically, a provable case of false rape accusation might result in this verdict.
- deelowe 5y ago
  Depends. Are certain groups disproportionally more likely to benefit from said accusations? Sorry, it needs to be said. It's easier to take one side of an argument when it's less likely to affect you personally.
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    What are you actually claiming here? You stance is unclear.
    - deelowe 5y ago
      That this is a contentious topic with biases on both sides. One group clearly benefits from any accusations being squashed before ever being investigated. Another benefits from never having to prove their accusations hold merit. This is why due process is important.
      - Ensorceled 5y ago
        I see this a lot in these discussions. What do you think Trump or Cosby's accusers gained by their accusations holding merit?
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    Yes, generally powerful men disproportionately benefit from accusations that a rape claim is false. No doubt some are false, but have not seen any evidence suggesting the majority are false.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  > That is no reason to jump to a default "assume the accusation is false". That's also not what I was trying to say. I only explained why testimony is far more doubted in rape cases than in most other cases. In general, I agree with you that accusations should be treated as unproven, so neither false nor true; we have a justice system to give a final verdict.

Ensorceled 5y ago

Yes, rape is more difficult to prove than a number of other crimes. That is no reason to jump to a default "assume the accusation is false".

ziml77 5y ago
The reason to default to that is because a principle of our legal system is that people are innocent until proven guilty. On top of that proving someone guilty requires going beyond reasonable doubt.
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  The principle is the defendant is innocent until proven guilty, NOT that the accuser is making a false accusation. There is a reason the verdict is "not guilty" instead of "innocent". After a not guilty verdict the legal system still does not assume the accuser was making a false accusation.
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    > There is a reason the verdict is "not guilty" instead of "innocent". Both verdicts exists, actually; the latter one is just far rarer (since it is both harder to prove and usually not what is argued about).
    - Ensorceled 5y ago
      Yes, and almost always a either a case of mistaken identity or emerging malfeasance by either witnesses or prosecution. Ironically, a provable case of false rape accusation might result in this verdict.
deelowe 5y ago
Depends. Are certain groups disproportionally more likely to benefit from said accusations? Sorry, it needs to be said. It's easier to take one side of an argument when it's less likely to affect you personally.
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  What are you actually claiming here? You stance is unclear.
  - deelowe 5y ago
    That this is a contentious topic with biases on both sides. One group clearly benefits from any accusations being squashed before ever being investigated. Another benefits from never having to prove their accusations hold merit. This is why due process is important.
    - Ensorceled 5y ago
      I see this a lot in these discussions. What do you think Trump or Cosby's accusers gained by their accusations holding merit?
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  Yes, generally powerful men disproportionately benefit from accusations that a rape claim is false. No doubt some are false, but have not seen any evidence suggesting the majority are false.
Sebb767 5y ago
> That is no reason to jump to a default "assume the accusation is false". That's also not what I was trying to say. I only explained why testimony is far more doubted in rape cases than in most other cases. In general, I agree with you that accusations should be treated as unproven, so neither false nor true; we have a justice system to give a final verdict.