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In case of Appelbaum, are there any solid reasons to believe that the accusations are untrue? For Assange, I think that the victim admitted that the accusation

by d33 5y ago

In case of Appelbaum, are there any solid reasons to believe that the accusations are untrue? For Assange, I think that the victim admitted that the accusation was fabricated, isn't that the case?

enriquto 5y ago
> solid reasons to believe that the accusations are untrue this is not how the concept of accusation works
coldtea 5y ago
Accusations must be proven true, not untrue by the accused. And besides the "victim" in the latter case there was a whole lot of diplomatic pressure and political commotion to set him up, with carrots and sticks and the aid of friendly satellite states.
- _jal 5y ago
  They must be proven true beyond a reasonable doubt to get a person in a funny robe to put them in jail. Normal humans are not required to prove anything in order to think them.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    >Normal humans are not required to prove anything in order to think them. No, but decent human beings are required to not think them true just because they're out there...
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      decent humans can have a lower standard for thinking someone did a crime than the criminal justice system does. this is true whether you believe or disbelieve a rape claim, because if you disbelieve it you typically must believe the corrolary that the victim was committing the crime of lying to the police.
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    Which is why false rape allegations are so fucking dangerous, and are not nearly as punished as harshly as they should be.
  - Griffinsauce 5y ago
    *in the US
    - coldtea 5y ago
      I'm not in the US. And even if it didn't hold in my country, it's still a tenet I think is fair. So, I didn't intended invoke what's the legal requirements, but what should be the "right" thing (and what I think should also be legally mandated, even if it's not).
- xpe 5y ago
  > Accusations must be proven true, not untrue by the accused. I respect this ethical claim; however, there is considerable variation in how legal systems operate in this domain.

by d33 5y ago

In case of Appelbaum, are there any solid reasons to believe that the accusations are untrue? For Assange, I think that the victim admitted that the accusation was fabricated, isn't that the case?

enriquto 5y ago

> solid reasons to believe that the accusations are untrue this is not how the concept of accusation works

coldtea 5y ago

Accusations must be proven true, not untrue by the accused. And besides the "victim" in the latter case there was a whole lot of diplomatic pressure and political commotion to set him up, with carrots and sticks and the aid of friendly satellite states.

_jal 5y ago
They must be proven true beyond a reasonable doubt to get a person in a funny robe to put them in jail. Normal humans are not required to prove anything in order to think them.
- coldtea 5y ago
  >Normal humans are not required to prove anything in order to think them. No, but decent human beings are required to not think them true just because they're out there...
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    decent humans can have a lower standard for thinking someone did a crime than the criminal justice system does. this is true whether you believe or disbelieve a rape claim, because if you disbelieve it you typically must believe the corrolary that the victim was committing the crime of lying to the police.
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  Which is why false rape allegations are so fucking dangerous, and are not nearly as punished as harshly as they should be.
- Griffinsauce 5y ago
  *in the US
  - coldtea 5y ago
    I'm not in the US. And even if it didn't hold in my country, it's still a tenet I think is fair. So, I didn't intended invoke what's the legal requirements, but what should be the "right" thing (and what I think should also be legally mandated, even if it's not).
xpe 5y ago
> Accusations must be proven true, not untrue by the accused. I respect this ethical claim; however, there is considerable variation in how legal systems operate in this domain.