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Google and every other cloud storage provider has been scanning images that you upload to their servers. This is perfectly justified, since they would be legall

by franga2000 5y ago

Google and every other cloud storage provider has been scanning images that you upload to their servers. This is perfectly justified, since they would be legally and morally accomplices to whatever illegal thing you were doing. But scanning someone's locally stored images on a device that they own is a completely different situation. It's the difference between the airport checking my luggage for illegal drugs and the police showing up at every person's house once in a while to check if any drugs happen to be on the premises.

zimpenfish 5y ago
> But scanning someone's locally stored images on a device that they own is a completely different situation. They're only scanning photos that you upload them to iCloud Photos - this is not (currently) a blanket "we'll scan all your local photos whenever" situation. > It's the difference between the airport checking my luggage for illegal drugs ... and FedEx/UPS checking your outgoing packages for drugs.
- salawat 5y ago
  >... and FedEx/UPS checking your outgoing packages for drugs. Interesting USPS isn't mentioned there. Another example of 4th Amendment workarounds through private industry? Or are you just not aware of what the USPS equivalent program would be? Genuinely curious.
  - shuckles 5y ago
    USPS x-rays many packages - I’d venture almost all of them shipped from a major population center.
    - salawat 5y ago
      Lead foil is a thing. https://www.amazon.com/lead-foil/s?k=lead+foil https://www.amazon.com/lead-foil/s?k=lead+foil
      - shuckles 5y ago
        This looks like a good way to get a package marked as suspicious, and suspicious packages have their contents searched.
        salawat 5y ago
        Until you DDoS the inspection framework. turns out the material is pretty cheap! Heck, I can pay for you to return the lead foil wrapping to be "environmentally conscious by taking on the onus for packaging recycling!" Doubling my in-flight noise ratio, and generating good press. You have to think big. You need people to open a package, inspect, and reseal it. I can make a dropshipping business, turn a profit, and swamp your unboxers to the point you stop trying. I'm not out to do that, so I wouldn't bother, but there are ways, and you'll be surprised the hijinks you can get up to when adversarial attack of infrastructure or process is done right. Quite a lot of modern systems that just werk do so because on the whole, people don't spend much time being dicks. Unfortunately, my brain seems to have a part that enjoys the challenge in its idle time. Measuring is hard. Especially when someone has their hand on the "noise" dial.
        shuckles 5y ago
        This is quite off-topic from the fourth amendment workaround originally insinuated. I agree modern society depends on trust more than one may expect or wish. DDoSing the USPS to prove it doesn’t seem like a very pro-social idea, and I do like society.
simondotau 5y ago
> It's the difference between the airport checking my luggage for illegal drugs and the police showing up at every person's house once in a while to check if any drugs happen to be on the premises. Actually, you're right. That's exactly what it's like. The former is how your Government routinely invades your privacy; the latter is an unequivocal violation of the Fourth Amendment of the US Constitution. As it is with on-cloud versus on-device scanning. If Apple were compelled by the US Government to expand the on-device scanning to search for anything, that too would be an unequivocal Fourth Amendment violation. Whereas any scanning that occurs on the cloud is not subject to Fourth Amendment protection. It's excepted under the so-called "third party doctrine", which effectively means the Government can rifle through whatever they want for any reason.

zimpenfish 5y ago

> But scanning someone's locally stored images on a device that they own is a completely different situation. They're only scanning photos that you upload them to iCloud Photos - this is not (currently) a blanket "we'll scan all your local photos whenever" situation. > It's the difference between the airport checking my luggage for illegal drugs ... and FedEx/UPS checking your outgoing packages for drugs.

salawat 5y ago
>... and FedEx/UPS checking your outgoing packages for drugs. Interesting USPS isn't mentioned there. Another example of 4th Amendment workarounds through private industry? Or are you just not aware of what the USPS equivalent program would be? Genuinely curious.
- shuckles 5y ago
  USPS x-rays many packages - I’d venture almost all of them shipped from a major population center.
  - salawat 5y ago
    Lead foil is a thing. https://www.amazon.com/lead-foil/s?k=lead+foil https://www.amazon.com/lead-foil/s?k=lead+foil
    - shuckles 5y ago
      This looks like a good way to get a package marked as suspicious, and suspicious packages have their contents searched.
      - salawat 5y ago
        Until you DDoS the inspection framework. turns out the material is pretty cheap! Heck, I can pay for you to return the lead foil wrapping to be "environmentally conscious by taking on the onus for packaging recycling!" Doubling my in-flight noise ratio, and generating good press. You have to think big. You need people to open a package, inspect, and reseal it. I can make a dropshipping business, turn a profit, and swamp your unboxers to the point you stop trying. I'm not out to do that, so I wouldn't bother, but there are ways, and you'll be surprised the hijinks you can get up to when adversarial attack of infrastructure or process is done right. Quite a lot of modern systems that just werk do so because on the whole, people don't spend much time being dicks. Unfortunately, my brain seems to have a part that enjoys the challenge in its idle time. Measuring is hard. Especially when someone has their hand on the "noise" dial.
        shuckles 5y ago
        This is quite off-topic from the fourth amendment workaround originally insinuated. I agree modern society depends on trust more than one may expect or wish. DDoSing the USPS to prove it doesn’t seem like a very pro-social idea, and I do like society.

simondotau 5y ago

> It's the difference between the airport checking my luggage for illegal drugs and the police showing up at every person's house once in a while to check if any drugs happen to be on the premises. Actually, you're right. That's exactly what it's like. The former is how your Government routinely invades your privacy; the latter is an unequivocal violation of the Fourth Amendment of the US Constitution. As it is with on-cloud versus on-device scanning. If Apple were compelled by the US Government to expand the on-device scanning to search for anything, that too would be an unequivocal Fourth Amendment violation. Whereas any scanning that occurs on the cloud is not subject to Fourth Amendment protection. It's excepted under the so-called "third party doctrine", which effectively means the Government can rifle through whatever they want for any reason.