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This is outdated reporting, Apple did drop the suit against Corellium a few days back. Funnily enough the same NeuralHash has already been generated for comple

This is outdated reporting, Apple did drop the suit against Corellium a few days back. Funnily enough the same NeuralHash has already been generated for completely different images, so good luck explaining why your 4th of July pics cost all of your safety vouchers to Apple/FBI

commoner 5y ago
Already covered in the article: > In the lawsuit, Apple argued that Corellium violated its copyrights, enabled the sale of software exploits used for hacking, and shouldn’t exist. The startup countered by saying that its use of Apple’s code was a classic protected case of fair use. The judge has largely sided with Corellium so far. Part of the two-year case was settled just last week—days after news of the company’s CSAM technology became public. > On Monday, Corellium announced a $15,000 grant for a program it is specifically promoting as a way to look at iPhones under a microscope and hold Apple accountable. On Tuesday, Apple filed an appeal continuing the lawsuit.
- shapefrog 5y ago
  Headline is deliberatly implying that they are suing a startup for veting their CSAM tool. Fake news.
  - commoner 5y ago
    This doesn't look like "fake news" to me. Timeline: Monday, August 16: Corellium launches its "Open Security Initiative" to fund "research projects designed to validate any security and privacy claims for any mobile software vendor". The announcement prominently lists Apple's privacy and security claims about its CSAM scanning as one of the topics that would be eligible for funding under this initiative. (https://www.corellium.com/blog/open-security-initiative https://www.corellium.com/blog/open-security-initiative) Tuesday, August 17: Apple appeals the copyright case that it lost against Corellium. Reuters reports that the appeal was a "surprise" after the recent settlement. (https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appeal-notice-copyright-lawsuit-against-cybersecurity-firm-2021-08-17/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appe...)
    - shapefrog 5y ago
      Correct timeline: August 2019 - Apple sued iOS virtualization provider Corellium for copyright infringement and DMCA violations December 29, 2020 - Apple loses copyright claims in lawsuit against U.S. security bug startup August 5, 2021 - Apple announces new protections for child safety August 17, 2021 - Apple says researchers can vet its child safety features. But it’s suing a startup that does just that. Unless there is an iTimemachine I struggle to see how Apple sued a company in August 2019 for saying in August 2021 it will vet help vet its CSAM tools announced in August 2021.
      - commoner 5y ago
        Apple settled the lawsuit on August 10, 2021, just to file an appeal on August 17, 2021 (one day after Corellium's announcement). That is the focus of the article, not the original 2019 filing. From the Reuters link in the article: > The appeal came as a surprise because Apple had just settled other claims with Corellium relating to the Digitial Milennium Copyright Act, avoiding a trial. > Experts said they were also surprised that Apple revived a fight against a major research tool provider just after arguing that researchers would provide a check on its controversial plan to scan customer devices. https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appeal-notice-copyright-lawsuit-against-cybersecurity-firm-2021-08-17/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appe...
      - zenexer 5y ago
        It’s going to be practically impossible for most researchers to vet the CSAM detection tool without Corellium. It’s already very difficult with Corellium, but Apple is going out of their way to ensure such research is infeasible in most cases. That isn’t limited to their CSAM detection tool—hence the lawsuit that predates that tool. Apple is claiming that researchers can vet the CSAM detection feature while simultaneously attempting to take down organizations that make such research possible. It’s a stupid statement on their part.
      - saurik 5y ago
        Neither the headline nor the HN title say that the lawsuit is "for saying" anything... they both merely--and very correctly--claim that Apple "is suing a startup that does just that". Are you claiming that Apple is not suing Corellium? Alternatively, are you claiming Corellium does not "do[] just that"?
zenexer 5y ago
No they didn’t. They did settle, but they subsequently appealed a week later.
- tremon 5y ago
  Note to self: make sure every settlement agreement includes a clause like "the agreed-to settlement amount triples on every subsequent legal action by $other_party concerning this subject".
- saurik 5y ago
  So, it is maybe worth explaining this a bit: Apple lost these claims in December... and like, really badly: the jugs outright dismissed them; but then the trial was going to continue with the rest of the claims, which were settled. Apple is now appealing the claims they lost, not the ones they settled (they can't do that: that would undermine the premise of settling anything at all). Legal complaints are not atomic all-or-nothing affairs in this way.
  - zenexer 5y ago
    Thanks for the added context. I assumed it was either something along those lines or the settlement was never actually finalized. It’ll be interesting to see what comes of all of this.
croes 5y ago
You mean Apple lost, but they appealed already https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appeal-notice-copyright-lawsuit-against-cybersecurity-firm-2021-08-17/q https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appe...

commoner 5y ago

Already covered in the article: > In the lawsuit, Apple argued that Corellium violated its copyrights, enabled the sale of software exploits used for hacking, and shouldn’t exist. The startup countered by saying that its use of Apple’s code was a classic protected case of fair use. The judge has largely sided with Corellium so far. Part of the two-year case was settled just last week—days after news of the company’s CSAM technology became public. > On Monday, Corellium announced a $15,000 grant for a program it is specifically promoting as a way to look at iPhones under a microscope and hold Apple accountable. On Tuesday, Apple filed an appeal continuing the lawsuit.

shapefrog 5y ago
Headline is deliberatly implying that they are suing a startup for veting their CSAM tool. Fake news.
- commoner 5y ago
  This doesn't look like "fake news" to me. Timeline: Monday, August 16: Corellium launches its "Open Security Initiative" to fund "research projects designed to validate any security and privacy claims for any mobile software vendor". The announcement prominently lists Apple's privacy and security claims about its CSAM scanning as one of the topics that would be eligible for funding under this initiative. (https://www.corellium.com/blog/open-security-initiative https://www.corellium.com/blog/open-security-initiative) Tuesday, August 17: Apple appeals the copyright case that it lost against Corellium. Reuters reports that the appeal was a "surprise" after the recent settlement. (https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appeal-notice-copyright-lawsuit-against-cybersecurity-firm-2021-08-17/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appe...)
  - shapefrog 5y ago
    Correct timeline: August 2019 - Apple sued iOS virtualization provider Corellium for copyright infringement and DMCA violations December 29, 2020 - Apple loses copyright claims in lawsuit against U.S. security bug startup August 5, 2021 - Apple announces new protections for child safety August 17, 2021 - Apple says researchers can vet its child safety features. But it’s suing a startup that does just that. Unless there is an iTimemachine I struggle to see how Apple sued a company in August 2019 for saying in August 2021 it will vet help vet its CSAM tools announced in August 2021.
    - commoner 5y ago
      Apple settled the lawsuit on August 10, 2021, just to file an appeal on August 17, 2021 (one day after Corellium's announcement). That is the focus of the article, not the original 2019 filing. From the Reuters link in the article: > The appeal came as a surprise because Apple had just settled other claims with Corellium relating to the Digitial Milennium Copyright Act, avoiding a trial. > Experts said they were also surprised that Apple revived a fight against a major research tool provider just after arguing that researchers would provide a check on its controversial plan to scan customer devices. https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appeal-notice-copyright-lawsuit-against-cybersecurity-firm-2021-08-17/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appe...
    - zenexer 5y ago
      It’s going to be practically impossible for most researchers to vet the CSAM detection tool without Corellium. It’s already very difficult with Corellium, but Apple is going out of their way to ensure such research is infeasible in most cases. That isn’t limited to their CSAM detection tool—hence the lawsuit that predates that tool. Apple is claiming that researchers can vet the CSAM detection feature while simultaneously attempting to take down organizations that make such research possible. It’s a stupid statement on their part.
    - saurik 5y ago
      Neither the headline nor the HN title say that the lawsuit is "for saying" anything... they both merely--and very correctly--claim that Apple "is suing a startup that does just that". Are you claiming that Apple is not suing Corellium? Alternatively, are you claiming Corellium does not "do[] just that"?

zenexer 5y ago

No they didn’t. They did settle, but they subsequently appealed a week later.

tremon 5y ago
Note to self: make sure every settlement agreement includes a clause like "the agreed-to settlement amount triples on every subsequent legal action by $other_party concerning this subject".
saurik 5y ago
So, it is maybe worth explaining this a bit: Apple lost these claims in December... and like, really badly: the jugs outright dismissed them; but then the trial was going to continue with the rest of the claims, which were settled. Apple is now appealing the claims they lost, not the ones they settled (they can't do that: that would undermine the premise of settling anything at all). Legal complaints are not atomic all-or-nothing affairs in this way.
- zenexer 5y ago
  Thanks for the added context. I assumed it was either something along those lines or the settlement was never actually finalized. It’ll be interesting to see what comes of all of this.

croes 5y ago

You mean Apple lost, but they appealed already https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appeal-notice-copyright-lawsuit-against-cybersecurity-firm-2021-08-17/q https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/apple-files-appe...