4 ms·

Do you have a link?

cwizou 5y ago
They have been scanning Gmail for a while using this, as nearly every provider does : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhotoDNA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhotoDNA
- FartyMcFarter 5y ago
  From what I can tell, that is not used on Android or user devices though. So it's not the same thing as what Apple is doing.
  - cwizou 5y ago
    Yes what Apple does is slightly different technically : they run a network on device, then when you upload the picture to their Cloud services, they attach the hash generated to the picture. It's only on their servers that they will do the check against the database of CSAM content. So in that sense, it's pretty much the same that what other providers do, it remains attached to their online service, and they check the hash against the database instead of checking the picture (as others do). If you don't use their iCloud service, the hash is never checked. I still don't think having the client as part of the system is a good thing, but in terms of abuse it's about the same thing. What Apple's system allow is a way to do a check while keeping the data encrypted in some 3rd party service. That part certainly raises questions should it be extended.
    - FartyMcFarter 5y ago
      Thanks, that makes sense!
ytch 5y ago
Is this counts? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tip-from-google-leads-to-texas-child-porn-arrest/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tip-from-google-leads-to-texas-...
- franga2000 5y ago
  From the article: > "He was trying to get around getting caught, he was trying to keep it inside his email," said Detective David Nettles of the Houston Metro Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce reports the station. "I can't see that information, I can't see that photo, but Google can." "email" here is presumably Gmail, which Google owns and is responsible for. The dude was storing illegal data on Google servers in plain form. His personal devices were only checked by LEOs after a warrant was issued. Definitely not the same as Apple scanning the images on your device (not their servers).
  - ytch 5y ago
    IIRC, Apple will only scans if iCloud photo is enabled: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_... > This feature only impacts users who have chosen to use iCloud Photos to store their photos.
    - sneak 5y ago
      This is a red herring. It wouldn't need to happen on device then, because iCloud Photos are not end to end encrypted and Apple can scan them on the server side today and achieve the same result. The only reason to scan clientside for a cloud service is to scan files that are not uploaded, or are end to end encrypted. Apple already maintains an e2e backdoor (in the form of non e2e iCloud Backup) for the FBI and US intelligence agencies. It is extremely unlikely that they will e2e encrypt iCloud Photos.
      - CubsFan1060 5y ago
        I think you just hit on exactly what the plan probably was. I suspect this was the first step in making iCloud photos (not backup) E2E encrypted. I suppose had they not gone down this road, the headlines would have been "Apple makes it easier to share child porn online".

Do you have a link?

They have been scanning Gmail for a while using this, as nearly every provider does : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhotoDNA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhotoDNA

FartyMcFarter 5y ago
From what I can tell, that is not used on Android or user devices though. So it's not the same thing as what Apple is doing.
- cwizou 5y ago
  Yes what Apple does is slightly different technically : they run a network on device, then when you upload the picture to their Cloud services, they attach the hash generated to the picture. It's only on their servers that they will do the check against the database of CSAM content. So in that sense, it's pretty much the same that what other providers do, it remains attached to their online service, and they check the hash against the database instead of checking the picture (as others do). If you don't use their iCloud service, the hash is never checked. I still don't think having the client as part of the system is a good thing, but in terms of abuse it's about the same thing. What Apple's system allow is a way to do a check while keeping the data encrypted in some 3rd party service. That part certainly raises questions should it be extended.
  - FartyMcFarter 5y ago
    Thanks, that makes sense!

ytch 5y ago

Is this counts? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tip-from-google-leads-to-texas-child-porn-arrest/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tip-from-google-leads-to-texas-...

franga2000 5y ago
From the article: > "He was trying to get around getting caught, he was trying to keep it inside his email," said Detective David Nettles of the Houston Metro Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce reports the station. "I can't see that information, I can't see that photo, but Google can." "email" here is presumably Gmail, which Google owns and is responsible for. The dude was storing illegal data on Google servers in plain form. His personal devices were only checked by LEOs after a warrant was issued. Definitely not the same as Apple scanning the images on your device (not their servers).
- ytch 5y ago
  IIRC, Apple will only scans if iCloud photo is enabled: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_... > This feature only impacts users who have chosen to use iCloud Photos to store their photos.
  - sneak 5y ago
    This is a red herring. It wouldn't need to happen on device then, because iCloud Photos are not end to end encrypted and Apple can scan them on the server side today and achieve the same result. The only reason to scan clientside for a cloud service is to scan files that are not uploaded, or are end to end encrypted. Apple already maintains an e2e backdoor (in the form of non e2e iCloud Backup) for the FBI and US intelligence agencies. It is extremely unlikely that they will e2e encrypt iCloud Photos.
    - CubsFan1060 5y ago
      I think you just hit on exactly what the plan probably was. I suspect this was the first step in making iCloud photos (not backup) E2E encrypted. I suppose had they not gone down this road, the headlines would have been "Apple makes it easier to share child porn online".