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I don’t like NYTimes tone about this. If you decide to major in Cinematography and then blame the college for negative ROI, the fault is entirely on you. No amo

I don’t like NYTimes tone about this. If you decide to major in Cinematography and then blame the college for negative ROI, the fault is entirely on you. No amount of fudging will bend the market forces for employment in your favor. Supply far exceeds the demand for such roles (similar video game software devs). We need more community and polytechnic institutes. Trade craft schools and apprenticeships like they do in Switzerland. I don’t understand why people (mostly progressives but also conservatives) in USA continue to double down on degree programs.

rahimnathwani 5y ago
Right, but: - a child makes the decision - the main influences on the child probably don't impress on the child the need to analyse the decision rationally - even if the child tried to analyse it rationally, what % of prospective college students have the financial literacy to do that successfully? - even if they had the financial literacy, it's not like colleges provide useful data. Even this article talks about earnings uplift without isolating the impact of the degree (vs. existing increased prospects compared with typical HS grad).
- notsureaboutpg 5y ago
  No a child doesn't make the decision. Most people in college are 18, i.e. adults. We have to stop babying adults. Honestly a lot of smart 16 year olds could make the decision of how to spend their loan money wisely. If you are not adult enough to figure out how to invest a loan wisely, you are not adult enough to receive a loan in the first place.
- shapefrog 5y ago
  Unemplyment rate by qualificaion (ignoring participation rate which would skew these numbers far more to the side of getting qualified) https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm: - HS dropout 9.5% - HS only 6.3% - Some college or associate degree 5.0% - Bachelor's degree and higher 3.1 %
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    What conclusion do you draw from these data?
    - shapefrog 5y ago
      Go to university, even better if you can get your degree.
      - rahimnathwani 5y ago
        The data are not sufficient to support your conclusion. The data say nothing about: * The opportunity cost (of the time to get a degree) * Tuition costs * The $ returns in higher income Maybe getting a degree (any degree) reduces the chance of being unemployed, because Starbucks prefers to hire people with degrees than people without. But that doesn't mean getting a degree is worth the cost for everyone in every situation.
- Akronymus 5y ago
  > - even if the child tried to analyse it rationally, what % of prospective college students have the financial literacy to do that successfully? One of the MANY reasons I find that federally backed student loans should be stopped asap.
whakim 5y ago
The dominant culture in the United States is one of "following your passion." This is the advice that college students get from college advisors and the way colleges advertise themselves to potential students. In light of that, I think it's unfair to place the blame entirely on students.
- shapefrog 5y ago
  Is there a billionaire yet who hasn't written on this in their 'top 10 pieces of advice to make it big like me'; Get up every morning at 4am. Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.
watwut 5y ago
How is informing people about report where they can find information about this exactly thing "bad tone"? Kids should decide rationally and in the same sentece you criticize article for telling them some degrees have bad ROI. They should guess and make up this info on their own, I guess. Also, in fact, if you look at where people apply, they go mostly for business sounding degrees. Cinematography and what not are not where majority of students go. Students and families in fact are trying to guess which schools or degrees are good for them. Informing them about reports that actually measure them is better then having to guess.

rahimnathwani 5y ago

Right, but: - a child makes the decision - the main influences on the child probably don't impress on the child the need to analyse the decision rationally - even if the child tried to analyse it rationally, what % of prospective college students have the financial literacy to do that successfully? - even if they had the financial literacy, it's not like colleges provide useful data. Even this article talks about earnings uplift without isolating the impact of the degree (vs. existing increased prospects compared with typical HS grad).

notsureaboutpg 5y ago
No a child doesn't make the decision. Most people in college are 18, i.e. adults. We have to stop babying adults. Honestly a lot of smart 16 year olds could make the decision of how to spend their loan money wisely. If you are not adult enough to figure out how to invest a loan wisely, you are not adult enough to receive a loan in the first place.
shapefrog 5y ago
Unemplyment rate by qualificaion (ignoring participation rate which would skew these numbers far more to the side of getting qualified) https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm: - HS dropout 9.5% - HS only 6.3% - Some college or associate degree 5.0% - Bachelor's degree and higher 3.1 %
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  What conclusion do you draw from these data?
  - shapefrog 5y ago
    Go to university, even better if you can get your degree.
    - rahimnathwani 5y ago
      The data are not sufficient to support your conclusion. The data say nothing about: * The opportunity cost (of the time to get a degree) * Tuition costs * The $ returns in higher income Maybe getting a degree (any degree) reduces the chance of being unemployed, because Starbucks prefers to hire people with degrees than people without. But that doesn't mean getting a degree is worth the cost for everyone in every situation.
Akronymus 5y ago
> - even if the child tried to analyse it rationally, what % of prospective college students have the financial literacy to do that successfully? One of the MANY reasons I find that federally backed student loans should be stopped asap.

whakim 5y ago

The dominant culture in the United States is one of "following your passion." This is the advice that college students get from college advisors and the way colleges advertise themselves to potential students. In light of that, I think it's unfair to place the blame entirely on students.

shapefrog 5y ago
Is there a billionaire yet who hasn't written on this in their 'top 10 pieces of advice to make it big like me'; Get up every morning at 4am. Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.

watwut 5y ago

How is informing people about report where they can find information about this exactly thing "bad tone"? Kids should decide rationally and in the same sentece you criticize article for telling them some degrees have bad ROI. They should guess and make up this info on their own, I guess. Also, in fact, if you look at where people apply, they go mostly for business sounding degrees. Cinematography and what not are not where majority of students go. Students and families in fact are trying to guess which schools or degrees are good for them. Informing them about reports that actually measure them is better then having to guess.