7 ms·

I would say that there are places that are like the Falkland Island in Croatia.

sbacic 5y ago
As another Croatian, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I'd like other people to experience the breathtaking beauty of my country. On the other hand, considering all the negative externalities and the rampant devastation that comes with our brand of tourism I'm not sure I want any more tourists coming. I especially don't want tourists buying holiday homes here.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Yeah, Croatia is already turning into a country-sized tourist trap. It is really a shame considering how beautiful the area is.
  - saiya-jin 5y ago
    It was turning into tourist trap 20 years ago, the last time I visited. I think places like Italy or Greece offer more for same money (or even less). For balkan experience, Montenegro is a fine less spoiled option (depends on location obviously).
    - moonchrome 5y ago
      When was the last time you've been to Montenegro ? If you want to talk about wild overdevelopment there is no competition there. Greece is unique in it's own way - but it's the OG tourist trap in the area. Coast of Italy isn't really comparable on the Adriatc side (haven't been to Sicily so can't really compare)
    - ceilingcorner 5y ago
      The inland towns and more isolated islands are still quite local. And Montenegro is 100x more overdeveloped and touristy. I’m not sure where exactly you are referring to.
    - input_sh 5y ago
      If it's the cheap prices you're after, Albania is the answer. More specifically, anything south of Tirana. Communicating with locals over 30 is a bit challenging unless you know Albanian or Italian (I know, I was surprised too), but it's worth it for the pretty, not overcrowded beaches.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Croatia is significantly cheaper than Italy or Greece. Every meal you eat will be under $10 USD, good seafood too. The booze is stupidly cheap, bottled beer is like half the price of bottled water iirc and everyone was drinking openly everywhere on the street at all hours. Accommodations at excellent hotels were cheap. Getting around the country was cheap (we took a bus and stopped along dozens of cities along the coast). The most expensive part is airfare, but after that, it's cheaper than probably most of europe and certainly any city in the U.S. in terms of having a vacation. When I visited there were few Americans, but so so many Australians I couldn't understand it. I guess they know about it there moreso than the US.
  - phillc73 5y ago
    There are still places on the Croatian Adriatic which aren’t over run with tourists. Of course the popular areas are extremely crowded. There are still other beautiful islands which are not so busy. I’m writing this from a small 20 tent only campsite on a Croatian island. Access is only by ferry. Facilities are limited (no large supermarkets for example). It’s our third summer here and while there have been some changes, it is very slow. Taking a boat out for a day or two also allows for exploration of other, more remote islands. Some bays still aren’t over crowded with boats anchoring for the day. Also, later in August and early in the week are quieter times. Yesterday, I was the only person swimming at a nice sandy beach at 14:00.
    - randomopining 5y ago
      Wifi or 3/4g?
      - phillc73 5y ago
        LTE mobile data
        randomopining 5y ago
        Awesome. I've been to Croatia twice. Which area? The islands south of Istrian peninsula? They seem pretty chill.
        phillc73 5y ago
        Yes those islands, but some of them like Krk and Rab are very, very touristy. Other places which require a ferry to reach, like Cres for example, not so bad.
- moonchrome 5y ago
  Too late - I grew up going to stay with my grandparents at Pag a lot during 90s (during the war and after) - I remember the streets were so empty we would play football. Forward to early 2000s and I remember car jams 4km long for some random low-key event in a fishing village (ribarske večeri). These days it's not worth going to any tourist areas during season anymore, everything is overcrowded and the infrastructure isn't built to support that much people (roads, parking, water supply/sewage treatment, restaurants). Late spring and early autumn are still gorgeous. If you rent a boat it can be a bit better, but even then it's a hassle with marinas, etc. Just avoid the peak months IMO.
  - sbacic 5y ago
    > I remember the streets were so empty we would play football. We did this as well. There were a lot less cars and a lot more children back then. Now it's the opposite. I think that at some point we'll wake up to the cultural and environmental devastation we've wrought and do something about it. Hopefully it won't be too late by then.
- kebman 5y ago
  I first discovered Croatia when it was called Yugoslavia. Yes, it's an extremely beautiful country. But the area also has systemic problems that to me seems to be political in nature. Well, perhaps not all. Some of it is also simply economic. For good or bad, that leads to cheap prices on everything, which is the real reason so many people come, despite its charm. I'm sure that can be alleviated with with and good leadership, however. And where there's income, it's also worth investing in infrastructure.
  - sbacic 5y ago
    > I'm sure that can be alleviated with with and good leadership, however. I very much doubt it - one of the reasons we are in this mess is some 80+ years of human capital devastation - we have nowhere to draw experts or leaders from anymore.
    - kebman 5y ago
      Hm, that's very sad to hear... What would you do about it?
      - jokethrowaway 5y ago
        Remove inefficient governments, privatise all public services, let the market clean up the mess and attract foreign capital through zero taxation and lack of regulations. You need rich foreign expats, tired of paying 50% of their salaries in exchange for run down cities and homelessness, creating value in the country. If tourism is your only strategy you won't go far.
        mschuster91 5y ago
        > privatise all public services, let the market clean up the mess Half-Croat here. What you propose would destroy what is left of the country. Public services are already shoddy as it is because Croatia doesn't have much economy outside of tourism, agriculture and a bit of heavy industry. The best and young minds have been leaving the country for well over half a century.
- higeorge13 5y ago
  I think the whole Med has become like this. Travel is so mainstream nowadays (at least before covid), same with people buying properties in foreign countries.
  - randomopining 5y ago
    Yeah I think internet + Airbnb really opened some spots up. Like in the 90s, how did you find new spots? Mostly word of mouth on the ground I would assume. Less/no remote workers constantly traveling and sharing their opinions, etc.
    - asdff 5y ago
      In the 90s you went to a travel agent who arranged your airfare, lodging, even cab fare in between. You wouldn't find like an airbnb setup so easily, but Croatia is absolutely full of hotels even to this day. Honestly even today its easier to just pay someone to do that for you than fuddle with half a dozen websites to do the same on your own time.
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  Thanks to tourism your country was exposed to Western Europe and people speak English. If you think things are bad now look at Serbia: sold to China because nobody in the EU cares.
  - randomopining 5y ago
    What's it like in Serbia, do Chinese oligarchs own everything?
    - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
      The Chinese are buying up Serbia's industry and mining. They provide jobs and money but care nothing for the environment.
      - randomopining 5y ago
        Yeah it seems like that in that area. I've seen similar in Hungary. They are just using peoples' grievances with US and EU as an opening to get in and take economic control slowly.
- quadrifoliate 5y ago
  I visit Europe about once a year, and am low key avoiding visiting most of the former Yugoslavia because of this. I agree that having a rush of tourists in a country not accustomed to them can cause problems for both the tourists and the locals that resent the sudden influx.
  - moonchrome 5y ago
    I think you have a wrong impression - Croatia was a tourist destination during Yugoslavia. I think some places today still see less tourists then they did back then. Most of the coast has been living off tourism for at least half a century at this point. Also English level is pretty good among younger population, far better than say Spain or Italy. While I complain about it being overcrowded during peak tourist season that's just me reminiscing about the time that I grew up which was during and shortly after the civil war (naturally not a lot of tourism back then and it took years to recover). Any popular tourist place in Europe I've been to has been similar, eg. Dubrovnik is super popular and overcrowded - but so is Venice for example (if not worse).
ceilingcorner 5y ago
Advertising it online isn’t going to keep it preserved for very long.

As another Croatian, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I'd like other people to experience the breathtaking beauty of my country. On the other hand, considering all the negative externalities and the rampant devastation that comes with our brand of tourism I'm not sure I want any more tourists coming. I especially don't want tourists buying holiday homes here.

ceilingcorner 5y ago
Yeah, Croatia is already turning into a country-sized tourist trap. It is really a shame considering how beautiful the area is.
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  It was turning into tourist trap 20 years ago, the last time I visited. I think places like Italy or Greece offer more for same money (or even less). For balkan experience, Montenegro is a fine less spoiled option (depends on location obviously).
  - moonchrome 5y ago
    When was the last time you've been to Montenegro ? If you want to talk about wild overdevelopment there is no competition there. Greece is unique in it's own way - but it's the OG tourist trap in the area. Coast of Italy isn't really comparable on the Adriatc side (haven't been to Sicily so can't really compare)
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    The inland towns and more isolated islands are still quite local. And Montenegro is 100x more overdeveloped and touristy. I’m not sure where exactly you are referring to.
  - input_sh 5y ago
    If it's the cheap prices you're after, Albania is the answer. More specifically, anything south of Tirana. Communicating with locals over 30 is a bit challenging unless you know Albanian or Italian (I know, I was surprised too), but it's worth it for the pretty, not overcrowded beaches.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Croatia is significantly cheaper than Italy or Greece. Every meal you eat will be under $10 USD, good seafood too. The booze is stupidly cheap, bottled beer is like half the price of bottled water iirc and everyone was drinking openly everywhere on the street at all hours. Accommodations at excellent hotels were cheap. Getting around the country was cheap (we took a bus and stopped along dozens of cities along the coast). The most expensive part is airfare, but after that, it's cheaper than probably most of europe and certainly any city in the U.S. in terms of having a vacation. When I visited there were few Americans, but so so many Australians I couldn't understand it. I guess they know about it there moreso than the US.
- phillc73 5y ago
  There are still places on the Croatian Adriatic which aren’t over run with tourists. Of course the popular areas are extremely crowded. There are still other beautiful islands which are not so busy. I’m writing this from a small 20 tent only campsite on a Croatian island. Access is only by ferry. Facilities are limited (no large supermarkets for example). It’s our third summer here and while there have been some changes, it is very slow. Taking a boat out for a day or two also allows for exploration of other, more remote islands. Some bays still aren’t over crowded with boats anchoring for the day. Also, later in August and early in the week are quieter times. Yesterday, I was the only person swimming at a nice sandy beach at 14:00.
  - randomopining 5y ago
    Wifi or 3/4g?
    - phillc73 5y ago
      LTE mobile data
      - randomopining 5y ago
        Awesome. I've been to Croatia twice. Which area? The islands south of Istrian peninsula? They seem pretty chill.
        phillc73 5y ago
        Yes those islands, but some of them like Krk and Rab are very, very touristy. Other places which require a ferry to reach, like Cres for example, not so bad.
moonchrome 5y ago
Too late - I grew up going to stay with my grandparents at Pag a lot during 90s (during the war and after) - I remember the streets were so empty we would play football. Forward to early 2000s and I remember car jams 4km long for some random low-key event in a fishing village (ribarske večeri). These days it's not worth going to any tourist areas during season anymore, everything is overcrowded and the infrastructure isn't built to support that much people (roads, parking, water supply/sewage treatment, restaurants). Late spring and early autumn are still gorgeous. If you rent a boat it can be a bit better, but even then it's a hassle with marinas, etc. Just avoid the peak months IMO.
- sbacic 5y ago
  > I remember the streets were so empty we would play football. We did this as well. There were a lot less cars and a lot more children back then. Now it's the opposite. I think that at some point we'll wake up to the cultural and environmental devastation we've wrought and do something about it. Hopefully it won't be too late by then.
kebman 5y ago
I first discovered Croatia when it was called Yugoslavia. Yes, it's an extremely beautiful country. But the area also has systemic problems that to me seems to be political in nature. Well, perhaps not all. Some of it is also simply economic. For good or bad, that leads to cheap prices on everything, which is the real reason so many people come, despite its charm. I'm sure that can be alleviated with with and good leadership, however. And where there's income, it's also worth investing in infrastructure.
- sbacic 5y ago
  > I'm sure that can be alleviated with with and good leadership, however. I very much doubt it - one of the reasons we are in this mess is some 80+ years of human capital devastation - we have nowhere to draw experts or leaders from anymore.
  - kebman 5y ago
    Hm, that's very sad to hear... What would you do about it?
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      Remove inefficient governments, privatise all public services, let the market clean up the mess and attract foreign capital through zero taxation and lack of regulations. You need rich foreign expats, tired of paying 50% of their salaries in exchange for run down cities and homelessness, creating value in the country. If tourism is your only strategy you won't go far.
      - mschuster91 5y ago
        > privatise all public services, let the market clean up the mess Half-Croat here. What you propose would destroy what is left of the country. Public services are already shoddy as it is because Croatia doesn't have much economy outside of tourism, agriculture and a bit of heavy industry. The best and young minds have been leaving the country for well over half a century.
higeorge13 5y ago
I think the whole Med has become like this. Travel is so mainstream nowadays (at least before covid), same with people buying properties in foreign countries.
- randomopining 5y ago
  Yeah I think internet + Airbnb really opened some spots up. Like in the 90s, how did you find new spots? Mostly word of mouth on the ground I would assume. Less/no remote workers constantly traveling and sharing their opinions, etc.
  - asdff 5y ago
    In the 90s you went to a travel agent who arranged your airfare, lodging, even cab fare in between. You wouldn't find like an airbnb setup so easily, but Croatia is absolutely full of hotels even to this day. Honestly even today its easier to just pay someone to do that for you than fuddle with half a dozen websites to do the same on your own time.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Thanks to tourism your country was exposed to Western Europe and people speak English. If you think things are bad now look at Serbia: sold to China because nobody in the EU cares.
- randomopining 5y ago
  What's it like in Serbia, do Chinese oligarchs own everything?
  - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
    The Chinese are buying up Serbia's industry and mining. They provide jobs and money but care nothing for the environment.
    - randomopining 5y ago
      Yeah it seems like that in that area. I've seen similar in Hungary. They are just using peoples' grievances with US and EU as an opening to get in and take economic control slowly.
quadrifoliate 5y ago
I visit Europe about once a year, and am low key avoiding visiting most of the former Yugoslavia because of this. I agree that having a rush of tourists in a country not accustomed to them can cause problems for both the tourists and the locals that resent the sudden influx.
- moonchrome 5y ago
  I think you have a wrong impression - Croatia was a tourist destination during Yugoslavia. I think some places today still see less tourists then they did back then. Most of the coast has been living off tourism for at least half a century at this point. Also English level is pretty good among younger population, far better than say Spain or Italy. While I complain about it being overcrowded during peak tourist season that's just me reminiscing about the time that I grew up which was during and shortly after the civil war (naturally not a lot of tourism back then and it took years to recover). Any popular tourist place in Europe I've been to has been similar, eg. Dubrovnik is super popular and overcrowded - but so is Venice for example (if not worse).

ceilingcorner 5y ago

Advertising it online isn’t going to keep it preserved for very long.