4 ms·

Just to demonstrate, because I've met people who've never been in this sort of situation, this was my commute for ~2 semesters of college: https://goo.gl/maps/8

Just to demonstrate, because I've met people who've never been in this sort of situation, this was my commute for ~2 semesters of college: https://goo.gl/maps/8deDf74vRGDkeovRA https://goo.gl/maps/8deDf74vRGDkeovRA My mom had recently begun using again and I said "enough" and moved in with a relative. ~3 months in I had gotten a job in Hoboken, NJ (https://goo.gl/maps/ruU5Ppz746xv5ZeXA https://goo.gl/maps/ruU5Ppz746xv5ZeXA) and would have to drive from my relative's house to my college/job every day and drive back. I couldn't afford the boarding costs for on campus residency especially with the added pain of having to move in/out every semester. Each day I drove ~80 miles and had to fill up my tank. It was still some how barely cheaper than renting in the area and all I could afford. This kind of thing really kills you inside. It's truly painful. For me, I would wake up at 5AM each day to drive west to east with the sun in my eyes. Then I would stay at school and work until around midnight where I'd drive back east to west with the sun in my eyes. I was surviving with ~4hr/night of sleep. I wish we lived in a world where no one else had to go through that torture (for lack of a better word).

rexreed 5y ago
How was the sun in your eyes during the midnight drive back east to west in NJ? Even during the summer solstice, sunset is around 9pm in NJ. I get your point though, driving bleary eyed is not only soul sucking, but very dangerous for yourself and others on the road. Not to mention the ecological and time waste issues. Although I would note a 40 mile each way commute is sadly not out of the ordinary for America. Turns out the average commute distance for NJ is 40.9 miles. See stats here: https://www.answerfinancial.com/insurance-center/which-states-have-the-longest-commute/ https://www.answerfinancial.com/insurance-center/which-state...
- gravypod 5y ago
  Was probably plus it minus a few hours. Still not fun :)
- clifdweller 5y ago
  most likely spearte mwf/t th schedules mixing timings or weekdays weekends. 40 miles each way is rookie numbers here in michigan. Due to the large changing in manufacturing and other job shifts since the 90s many people live in one city then commute to another work in flint, detroit, lansing. detroit<-> flint 60+ miles detroit <-> lansing 80+ miles lansing<-> Flint 50+ miles . Decent factory job pays enough to get a mortgage on a house so many are able to afford a house but 2008 the housing crisis also brought recession and factories closed down. Then 2012 on jobs started coming back and many took first thing available but as recovery wasn't in each city uniformly ended up with a plant in lansing largely being run by people living in flint that couldnt afford to move to lansing
heavyset_go 5y ago
For reference, and to show how much it adds up, that area you commuted in has the longest average commute in the US[1]: > In the area with the longest average commute (New York-Newark-Jersey City), commuters are spending an average of 13 days, 2 hours, and 26 minutes driving to and from work. That means that 14 vacation days a year are barely covering the time it takes to get to work every day. So in addition to dropping the average wage from $34.71 per hour to $30.15 per hour, in order to get 14 days of hanging with their family on a beach, New York commuters must be willing to spend nearly as much time sitting in a car. They're using full days in that calculation. The average commute there results in ~40 8-hour work days of driving a year. [1] https://go.frontier.com/business/commute-calculator https://go.frontier.com/business/commute-calculator
abc_lisper 5y ago
I am sw engineer in the bay area, and I have a 3 hour commute with sun in my eyes, and I am actually paid well! Even getting paid well won't suffice here :). I have thought of moving to a different area, just for avoiding the sun, not the commute, but pandemic threw a wrench in my plans. House prices reached the stratosphere. Few more years I guess
fy20 5y ago
It's often suggested to increase fuel taxes to force people to drive less. I guess you were spending around $400 per month on fuel for this commute. Would you have done anything different if fuel costs were double that? (And let's assume getting a more efficient car wasn't an option)
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  But this just puts a strain on people in these situations, and they don't need it. In Paris, there are more and more "anti-car" measures which are currently in effect, but no alternatives. Yes, they're building and extending a bunch of metro lines, which I think is great, but almost none of those are currently operational. I think that there may be people who will absolutely choose to drive if at all possible, but I believe they are a minority, so maybe let's not concern ourselves with them at first. But I also believe that most people will take the sensible option, and if transit is cheaper and faster (or at least not terribly slower and inconvenient) they will choose this option. My point is that all these policies amount to a lot of sticks and no carrots. If I lived where my parents live, my commute would be close to two hours each way, if (and that's a big if) none of the several trains I'd have to take had any issue. Commuting by car would be around one hour each way. It would cost more because of the taxes on gas, but would allow me both some flexibility on coming and going AND let me get back two hours per day. And they live in a town with a direct to Paris suburban train stop. Many, many towns in the suburbs don't even have a train stop at all, so you'd have to catch a bus first to then catch a slower train. Now here's the kicker: most people I know, working in IT, are barely able to afford a livable apartment to raise a one-kid family. Hell, most end up living outside of Paris. So I'm not sure how much you can reasonably expect the wages for low-earners to rise so that they could afford to live in Paris instead of driving there. My point is that rising gas taxes and, generally, acting directly on the driving itself won't solve the issue, because people driving is itself a consequence of the underlying issue. I don't know what the solution is, but personally I'd rather look at improving the transit network and incentivizing companies to open offices elsewhere, to ease the density-related problems, such as overcrowded metros. Maybe then people would stop driving around in Paris, because they would have no reason to.
  - deleted 5y ago

rexreed 5y ago

How was the sun in your eyes during the midnight drive back east to west in NJ? Even during the summer solstice, sunset is around 9pm in NJ. I get your point though, driving bleary eyed is not only soul sucking, but very dangerous for yourself and others on the road. Not to mention the ecological and time waste issues. Although I would note a 40 mile each way commute is sadly not out of the ordinary for America. Turns out the average commute distance for NJ is 40.9 miles. See stats here: https://www.answerfinancial.com/insurance-center/which-states-have-the-longest-commute/ https://www.answerfinancial.com/insurance-center/which-state...

gravypod 5y ago
Was probably plus it minus a few hours. Still not fun :)
clifdweller 5y ago
most likely spearte mwf/t th schedules mixing timings or weekdays weekends. 40 miles each way is rookie numbers here in michigan. Due to the large changing in manufacturing and other job shifts since the 90s many people live in one city then commute to another work in flint, detroit, lansing. detroit<-> flint 60+ miles detroit <-> lansing 80+ miles lansing<-> Flint 50+ miles . Decent factory job pays enough to get a mortgage on a house so many are able to afford a house but 2008 the housing crisis also brought recession and factories closed down. Then 2012 on jobs started coming back and many took first thing available but as recovery wasn't in each city uniformly ended up with a plant in lansing largely being run by people living in flint that couldnt afford to move to lansing

heavyset_go 5y ago

For reference, and to show how much it adds up, that area you commuted in has the longest average commute in the US[1]: > In the area with the longest average commute (New York-Newark-Jersey City), commuters are spending an average of 13 days, 2 hours, and 26 minutes driving to and from work. That means that 14 vacation days a year are barely covering the time it takes to get to work every day. So in addition to dropping the average wage from $34.71 per hour to $30.15 per hour, in order to get 14 days of hanging with their family on a beach, New York commuters must be willing to spend nearly as much time sitting in a car. They're using full days in that calculation. The average commute there results in ~40 8-hour work days of driving a year. [1] https://go.frontier.com/business/commute-calculator https://go.frontier.com/business/commute-calculator

abc_lisper 5y ago

I am sw engineer in the bay area, and I have a 3 hour commute with sun in my eyes, and I am actually paid well! Even getting paid well won't suffice here :). I have thought of moving to a different area, just for avoiding the sun, not the commute, but pandemic threw a wrench in my plans. House prices reached the stratosphere. Few more years I guess

fy20 5y ago

It's often suggested to increase fuel taxes to force people to drive less. I guess you were spending around $400 per month on fuel for this commute. Would you have done anything different if fuel costs were double that? (And let's assume getting a more efficient car wasn't an option)

vladvasiliu 5y ago
But this just puts a strain on people in these situations, and they don't need it. In Paris, there are more and more "anti-car" measures which are currently in effect, but no alternatives. Yes, they're building and extending a bunch of metro lines, which I think is great, but almost none of those are currently operational. I think that there may be people who will absolutely choose to drive if at all possible, but I believe they are a minority, so maybe let's not concern ourselves with them at first. But I also believe that most people will take the sensible option, and if transit is cheaper and faster (or at least not terribly slower and inconvenient) they will choose this option. My point is that all these policies amount to a lot of sticks and no carrots. If I lived where my parents live, my commute would be close to two hours each way, if (and that's a big if) none of the several trains I'd have to take had any issue. Commuting by car would be around one hour each way. It would cost more because of the taxes on gas, but would allow me both some flexibility on coming and going AND let me get back two hours per day. And they live in a town with a direct to Paris suburban train stop. Many, many towns in the suburbs don't even have a train stop at all, so you'd have to catch a bus first to then catch a slower train. Now here's the kicker: most people I know, working in IT, are barely able to afford a livable apartment to raise a one-kid family. Hell, most end up living outside of Paris. So I'm not sure how much you can reasonably expect the wages for low-earners to rise so that they could afford to live in Paris instead of driving there. My point is that rising gas taxes and, generally, acting directly on the driving itself won't solve the issue, because people driving is itself a consequence of the underlying issue. I don't know what the solution is, but personally I'd rather look at improving the transit network and incentivizing companies to open offices elsewhere, to ease the density-related problems, such as overcrowded metros. Maybe then people would stop driving around in Paris, because they would have no reason to.
- deleted 5y ago