8 ms·

The question now is will this be the Hindenburg moment of this type of services, or is it just a speed bump? We'll see how all this bad press is going to sprea

by Ygor 15y ago

The question now is will this be the Hindenburg moment of this type of services, or is it just a speed bump? We'll see how all this bad press is going to spread across the rest of the mainstream media and tabloids. I know we are all disappointed with the way airbnb handled the situation, but we really shouldn't be happy if all the sensation seeking press starts using this to boost their sales, and in the process damages this market beyond repair.

al_james 15y ago
I think this may be the Hindenburg moment for services like this built purely on trust. Trust alone is a naive defence that only works when your user base is small and well aligned with your core concepts. In many ways its the coming of age of the concept when it starts appealing to crooks. Mandatory insurance and more strict user verification is the only way this kind of service will survive.
- grandalf 15y ago
  Crooks? Someone that would seriously vandalize someone's home is not really a "crook" but a victim of some sort of mental health problem. There will always (in any area of life) be a small percentage of people who do that sort of thing.
  - ashconnor 15y ago
    The perp also stole money, passports etc.
    - grandalf 15y ago
      Yeah but crooks is the biggest understatement I've ever heard. This is a bizarre, mean-spirited act... not simply theft.
  - wglb 15y ago
    Wait--so the guy who trashed the house is a victim?
    - grandalf 15y ago
      Someone who would do that is more likely suffering from some sort of mental health problem than simply being mean. Do you know any normal, healthy, reasonable person who would do that?
      - nhangen 15y ago
        There is lots of evil in the world. Your statement is far too broad of a generalization to be taken seriously.
        grandalf 15y ago
        There is lots of evil in the world. As a nonreligious person I just don't agree with that statement at all. The idea that there is some sinister force flowing around the earth is bizarre and medieval. More accurately, non-insane people behave as they do in order to achieve a goal that they think will bring them happiness. Unless there is a motive of revenge or bad PR then there is no way that the degree of vandalism done in this case could possibly make the vandal happy. Anyone who would go to great lengths to destroy all traces of a stranger's personal property is mentally ill. Mental illness has a material cause, not a supernatural one.
        bandushrew 15y ago
        I agree entirely, and I think you have made an important point. The person who did this is mentally unbalanced, and needs help.
        mikle 15y ago
        As everyone keeps telling you, you can't attribute that vandalism to mental health problems. It may be the case but you don't know. I guess you need counter examples to stop saying it: 1. Drugs 2. Thieves who knew/thought they'd get away with this, thus also wrecked the place (Occam's Razor will suggest this) 3. As you mentioned yourself - revenge or bad PR.
  - InclinedPlane 15y ago
    I find it curious that you say that. A thief is not just someone who shifts a few numbers in a spreadsheet, a thief tends to break things in order to gain access to valuables, or threaten people's lives. The line between that and willful vandalism is not so terribly thick.
jmjerlecki 15y ago
I think the important thing to note is that this might be Airbnb's Hindeburg, however this was entirely preventable had they dealt with this sooner and correctly. This could be and (already is) a lesson on how to (not)deal with PR on a business built entirely on trust and community.
jccodez 15y ago
I remember the early days of ebay and stories of fraud. I don't think this will be the end. They need to make adjustments, but I don't think this is the "end" of this type of service.
- robjohnson 15y ago
  I tend to agree. While the largest unknown independent variable here is how the Airbnb handles this crisis, I feel that they will be able to steer the ship through this.
  - jccodez 15y ago
    I find it interesting how people handle crisis. You can act on feeling, or you can act on logic. They (airbnb) need to be more logic based in their approach and state the facts: Our system is not perfect. We are making adjustments. We will compensate this person for their loss. Instead, they are providing tons of great coverage to the press.
- Keyframe 15y ago
  I think it's overblown. It's a one odd situation out of MANY good ones, same as couch surfing - from which airbnb is a commercialized version.
xefer 15y ago
I'd say it's closer to the Hindenburg moment. These services are great as long as it's part of a small, insular community of like-minded people. Once the criminal element sees it for the opportunity it is, it's over. There's an obvious analogy here to email and spammers. I suppose it could still work if the vetting process is better, but there will always be those who mask their identity and "sneak in". The cost of this to a criminal is probably minimal while the potential rewards are great. Perhaps the key is to create smaller "circles" of trust within the wider community.
- jackowayed 15y ago
  So ... email was destroyed by spammers? I didn't know about that; could you email me the details?
  - mcphilip 15y ago
    I wouldn't argue that email was 'destroyed' by spammers, but it definitely helped reduce its relevancy from my perspective considering that I assume 75%+ of all emails I receive on my non-work address to not be worth looking at.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - jonknee 15y ago
      Spam is a solved problem. If you're seeing that much spam you should re-evaluate what filters you have working.
      - brk 15y ago
        Not to get offtopce, but spam is not "solved". Solving spam would be something that does not require a user to implement filters and other mechanisms to auto-sort things into a junk box. A solution would be one which prevents the sending of the spam in the first place, or an auto-rejection mechanism that was 100% passive and 100% accurate. Spam is merely a problem that is manageable with some ultimately clunky tools.
localhost3000 15y ago
This is great practice for airbnb. Far worse things than this will happen as the service grows and they will need to be prepared to handle the absolute worst (eg craigslist killer type stuff). Get enough people together and bad stuff is certain to happen. It's just a matter of time.
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  They have failed in their handling to this point though.they are going to be lucky to survive, and they may take the industry with them.
  - drivebyacct2 15y ago
    Why or how have they failed? Even the person who was the victim in this case has basically had nothing but good things to say about AirBnb. I haven't been following this as closely as I follow some things, so maybe I've missed an angle. edit: Nevermind, I missed this article. Sorry for the noise. http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/29/airbnb-victim-speaks-again-homeless-scared-and-angry/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/29/airbnb-victim-speaks-again-... Yikes, if the implied allegations are true, they managed to do worse than bad press. They lied to generate good press. Did they not realize that would fail to stifle the truth and even worse, amplify the bad news?
    - div 15y ago
      The victim has updated her blog with a new post in which she explains how some of the public statements made by Airbnb's ceo are not true: http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare-no-end-in-sight.html http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare...
    - SoftwareMaven 15y ago
      The second blog post (linked above/below) is the problem. Before that, I thought this was a major crisis, but could be survived. After that (and the FT article), I really think they will be incredibly lucky to survive, much less continue their growth trajectory. People who use startups early do so because of the human interactions. AirBnB destroyed that by not being humane with the woman (EJ?). Sure, she has culpability, but I guarantee making her "right" would have cost one or two orders of magnitude less than this is costing. I would also expect the board to replace the CEO as a symbolic gesture. Somebody has to take the blame or they will not be able to get the next round raised.

by Ygor 15y ago

al_james 15y ago

I think this may be the Hindenburg moment for services like this built purely on trust. Trust alone is a naive defence that only works when your user base is small and well aligned with your core concepts. In many ways its the coming of age of the concept when it starts appealing to crooks. Mandatory insurance and more strict user verification is the only way this kind of service will survive.

grandalf 15y ago
Crooks? Someone that would seriously vandalize someone's home is not really a "crook" but a victim of some sort of mental health problem. There will always (in any area of life) be a small percentage of people who do that sort of thing.
- ashconnor 15y ago
  The perp also stole money, passports etc.
  - grandalf 15y ago
    Yeah but crooks is the biggest understatement I've ever heard. This is a bizarre, mean-spirited act... not simply theft.
- wglb 15y ago
  Wait--so the guy who trashed the house is a victim?
  - grandalf 15y ago
    Someone who would do that is more likely suffering from some sort of mental health problem than simply being mean. Do you know any normal, healthy, reasonable person who would do that?
    - nhangen 15y ago
      There is lots of evil in the world. Your statement is far too broad of a generalization to be taken seriously.
      - grandalf 15y ago
        There is lots of evil in the world. As a nonreligious person I just don't agree with that statement at all. The idea that there is some sinister force flowing around the earth is bizarre and medieval. More accurately, non-insane people behave as they do in order to achieve a goal that they think will bring them happiness. Unless there is a motive of revenge or bad PR then there is no way that the degree of vandalism done in this case could possibly make the vandal happy. Anyone who would go to great lengths to destroy all traces of a stranger's personal property is mentally ill. Mental illness has a material cause, not a supernatural one.
        bandushrew 15y ago
        I agree entirely, and I think you have made an important point. The person who did this is mentally unbalanced, and needs help.
        mikle 15y ago
        As everyone keeps telling you, you can't attribute that vandalism to mental health problems. It may be the case but you don't know. I guess you need counter examples to stop saying it: 1. Drugs 2. Thieves who knew/thought they'd get away with this, thus also wrecked the place (Occam's Razor will suggest this) 3. As you mentioned yourself - revenge or bad PR.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  I find it curious that you say that. A thief is not just someone who shifts a few numbers in a spreadsheet, a thief tends to break things in order to gain access to valuables, or threaten people's lives. The line between that and willful vandalism is not so terribly thick.

jmjerlecki 15y ago

I think the important thing to note is that this might be Airbnb's Hindeburg, however this was entirely preventable had they dealt with this sooner and correctly. This could be and (already is) a lesson on how to (not)deal with PR on a business built entirely on trust and community.

jccodez 15y ago

I remember the early days of ebay and stories of fraud. I don't think this will be the end. They need to make adjustments, but I don't think this is the "end" of this type of service.

robjohnson 15y ago
I tend to agree. While the largest unknown independent variable here is how the Airbnb handles this crisis, I feel that they will be able to steer the ship through this.
- jccodez 15y ago
  I find it interesting how people handle crisis. You can act on feeling, or you can act on logic. They (airbnb) need to be more logic based in their approach and state the facts: Our system is not perfect. We are making adjustments. We will compensate this person for their loss. Instead, they are providing tons of great coverage to the press.
Keyframe 15y ago
I think it's overblown. It's a one odd situation out of MANY good ones, same as couch surfing - from which airbnb is a commercialized version.

xefer 15y ago

I'd say it's closer to the Hindenburg moment. These services are great as long as it's part of a small, insular community of like-minded people. Once the criminal element sees it for the opportunity it is, it's over. There's an obvious analogy here to email and spammers. I suppose it could still work if the vetting process is better, but there will always be those who mask their identity and "sneak in". The cost of this to a criminal is probably minimal while the potential rewards are great. Perhaps the key is to create smaller "circles" of trust within the wider community.

jackowayed 15y ago
So ... email was destroyed by spammers? I didn't know about that; could you email me the details?
- mcphilip 15y ago
  I wouldn't argue that email was 'destroyed' by spammers, but it definitely helped reduce its relevancy from my perspective considering that I assume 75%+ of all emails I receive on my non-work address to not be worth looking at.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - jonknee 15y ago
    Spam is a solved problem. If you're seeing that much spam you should re-evaluate what filters you have working.
    - brk 15y ago
      Not to get offtopce, but spam is not "solved". Solving spam would be something that does not require a user to implement filters and other mechanisms to auto-sort things into a junk box. A solution would be one which prevents the sending of the spam in the first place, or an auto-rejection mechanism that was 100% passive and 100% accurate. Spam is merely a problem that is manageable with some ultimately clunky tools.

localhost3000 15y ago

This is great practice for airbnb. Far worse things than this will happen as the service grows and they will need to be prepared to handle the absolute worst (eg craigslist killer type stuff). Get enough people together and bad stuff is certain to happen. It's just a matter of time.

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
They have failed in their handling to this point though.they are going to be lucky to survive, and they may take the industry with them.
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  Why or how have they failed? Even the person who was the victim in this case has basically had nothing but good things to say about AirBnb. I haven't been following this as closely as I follow some things, so maybe I've missed an angle. edit: Nevermind, I missed this article. Sorry for the noise. http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/29/airbnb-victim-speaks-again-homeless-scared-and-angry/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/29/airbnb-victim-speaks-again-... Yikes, if the implied allegations are true, they managed to do worse than bad press. They lied to generate good press. Did they not realize that would fail to stifle the truth and even worse, amplify the bad news?
  - div 15y ago
    The victim has updated her blog with a new post in which she explains how some of the public statements made by Airbnb's ceo are not true: http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare-no-end-in-sight.html http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare...
  - SoftwareMaven 15y ago
    The second blog post (linked above/below) is the problem. Before that, I thought this was a major crisis, but could be survived. After that (and the FT article), I really think they will be incredibly lucky to survive, much less continue their growth trajectory. People who use startups early do so because of the human interactions. AirBnB destroyed that by not being humane with the woman (EJ?). Sure, she has culpability, but I guarantee making her "right" would have cost one or two orders of magnitude less than this is costing. I would also expect the board to replace the CEO as a symbolic gesture. Somebody has to take the blame or they will not be able to get the next round raised.