9 ms·

Vandalised home puts pressure on Airbnb

318 points by arghnoname 15y ago

arghnoname 15y ago
There's nothing new in the actual story. I thought it's placement on the front page (below the fold) of the print edition was significant. It's not exactly a tech publication.
- notexactly 15y ago
  I don't know what you mean by It's not exactly a tech publication. but this is not exactly a tech problem, this is a general business problem.
  - corin_ 15y ago
    OK seriously, why did you feel the need to create a fake account to post that from?
    - danparsonson 15y ago
      I don't get it - couldn't it just be the first time (s)he has commented? I originally made my account in order to post my first reply to something.
      - corin_ 15y ago
        Note the name chosen, and the second and third words that (s)he quoted.
        jonknee 15y ago
        Maybe it's the start of a reddit like novelty account. There sure are a lot of "not exactly" situations on HN. Could make a karma mint on any patent thread.
        hugh3 15y ago
        Wow, now I wish I'd thought of having a notexactly account. Maybe I'll have to settle for yesbut
        notexactly 15y ago
        You may have this one (if you can live with a throwaway). I have posted my original account in a comment above. It has my email ID in it. Email me and I will give you the password. Before that I will make a comment here stating that I have transfered the account and will wait till the delete option is gone. Seems fair?
        chc 15y ago
        Is it still called a "mint" if it's all downvotes?
        robtoo 15y ago
        I'd just assume that they needed to create an account to comment and picked the first username that came to mind. Quite logically, this was a couple of words from the reply that they had already formulated in their mind.
    - neutronicus 15y ago
      Don't new users show up as green?
    - notexactly 15y ago
      Just to be clear to all the posters here, yes this is a throw away. I made this throw away because that is how I use HN. I had a good account a few months back called rick_2047[1] (yes that guy!). After that one got hell banned (my second or third hell ban I think) I have observed that I digress from most of the HN community on the meaning of the term "trolling". No biggie HN people, thats just a different point of view. No hard feelings (but I still would like that account back or at least have it purged)[2]. I don't have a strong urge to post comments these days (that is a con) but I am less of a karma whore now (thats a pro). Most of the articles here were and still are very irrelevant to me. I am not doing any startups so don't need all that knowledge and am not into CS so don't read those articles as well. But every once in a while something interesting and generic (as generic as it gets on HN) comes up and I feel the urge to comment. PG made it really easy to make a new account. I chose a few words relevant the comment and then post it. I check the thread for a day or two (because they are not active after that, also I usually don't post very interesting stuff). I read the guidelines and all. I didn't find any clause stating that one cannot have multiple accounts. If I have missed something please do tell me. But even after that I know I will keep doing this, but at least I know I am doing something illegal. [1]http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=rick_2047 http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=rick_2047 (I think I made kind of a record with this one, of the most unpopular comment of all time, still would like conformation on that) [2] If PG is reading this, which he most probably isn't, if you can be so kind and purge my account that would be great. Thanks in advance.
- jsavimbi 15y ago
  > (below the fold) web 1.0 term now in disuse. As soon as a story, any story, is disseminated by a world renown publication such as the Financial Times, it might as well be the main story for the amount of time the long tail decides to keep it alive. It's a business problem; the tech part to AirBnB was just the application. Developers should get used to the fact that their apps grow up, move away and marry business people.
  - michael_h 15y ago
    Point taken, but 'below the fold' is most assuredly not a web 1.0 term when we're talking about a printed publication.
    - jsavimbi 15y ago
      In today's terms, a printed publication is entirely below the fold.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - SoftwareMaven 15y ago
    The "fold" doesn't refer to the bottom of the screen, but to the crease in a newspaper. Above the fold were the headlines that drew buyers because they could be seen in news stands and such. Below the fold were those that couldn't. Being above the fold on the front page meant your story was a big deal. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/below_the_fold http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/below_the_fold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Above_the_fold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Above_the_fold It was a newspaper term that got repurposed on the web before user experience studies (not the "versioning" of the web) showed it wasn't nearly as important as it is in newspapers.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- ______ 15y ago
  What is "new" is that this is now getting a lot of exposure in the non-tech press, which it wasn't before. Techcrunch is relatively niche compared to FT, and hacker news is even more niche. What this means for AirBnb is that for a great many readers of FT, if they haven't heard of AirBnB before, will have an opinion that the service is inherently unsafe (even if this is the 0.001% story). And once someone makes up their opinion on a product or service, it is very hard to make them change
pseudonym 15y ago
I'm a little surprised it took this long to start showing up in print, as it were. I'll also be interested in seeing if they do a followup with her latest post.
- o1iver 15y ago
  This long? The initial blog post went viral yesterday only... So to be in todays print edition I guess they wrote it last night or during the night...
  - pseudonym 15y ago
    Yes, but the actual incident and blog post was weeks ago, and this is the kind of combination of thing that rags like to pick up on-- harshly-treated victim, forgotten by an up-and-coming company that doesn't know how to spin PR properly.
    - o1iver 15y ago
      Yeah, but do you think that they follow all the blogs by non-celebrities... no
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
Uchikoma 15y ago
Danger, Will Robinson.
civild 15y ago
It won't be long until the tabloids pick this up and run with it, applying their own sensationalist inaccuracies. I think Airbnb have to act quickly to fix this before it turns into a Fox affiliate human interest story and damages their reputation irreconcilably.
- corin_ 15y ago
  Can't speak to American papers, but it certainly won't be big news in UK tabloids, if it's mentioned at all. The FT cares because it's business, tabloids won't care because it's not a particularly well-known business (over here).
  - swombat 15y ago
    tabloids won't care because it's not a particularly well-known business (over here). 1) I actually started using Airbnb because a non-technical friend used it and said it was great. It's more widespread than you think, even in Europe. 2) Tabloids will love the human interest angle, and be quite happy to blame "internet startups" in general for ruining this person's life. Accuracy is optional in a lynch mob.
    - corin_ 15y ago
      I suspect you're wrong, but perhaps I am, who knows. The way I see it is we've all heard of Hilton or Marriot hotels, and if something went down in a hotel room in one of those chains, papers wouldn't cover it because of the company, their decision would be based purely on how interesting what happened was. In this case, someone having their appartment robbed, without tying it into business/tech it's not all that interesting as news. So, while people may know the name of AirBNB (I still suspect that actually not a huge number over here know it, just seems more widespread because it only takes a few non-tech people to know about something well known in the tech scene for it to seem widespread to us), I don't know if people who care about it only for the rooms, and don't care about the actual company, will give much thought to this news.
      - 15y ago
karl11 15y ago
Has there been any verification anywhere that this actually happened, beyond just two blog posts?
- kafene 15y ago
  I would take the response by brianchesky as an authoritative source indicating that it did actually happen.
  - asmithmd1 15y ago
    It just seems a little too perfect to me. With the amount of money at stake in disrupting the hotel business it is not impossible that the event was staged. Her writing is just a little too perfect and why doesn't she respond to emails from the press? http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare-apartment-trashed-safety-renters/178966/1 http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011... It seems like the only person who has talked to her is the CEO of airbnb
    - danso 15y ago
      With his business model at stake, don't you think the CEO is smart enough to do some basic vetting before giving a response that acknowledges the veracity of the alleged crime? EJ may be anonymous to the rest of the world (though her blog has lengthy posts from as long as two years ago...pretty good trolling setup if she were a troll, even though you can backdate posts), but presumably, airbnb has all of her personal information, and as an tech-savvy startup, has conducted basic online research of her (her credit card was obviously valid; does she have a FB account. does googling her bring up any connection to the hotel industry, etc.?)
      - corin_ 15y ago
        I'm not jumping on the conspiracy theory bandwagon and think that the idea is nonsense, but hypotheticall, if I were trying to make Airbnb look bad (and had had spare cash to do it with), I wouldn't just pay someone to say it happened, I'd also per someone to rent the appartment, and actually do this stuff, so that any checks show the crime did indeed happen.
Ygor 15y ago
The question now is will this be the Hindenburg moment of this type of services, or is it just a speed bump? We'll see how all this bad press is going to spread across the rest of the mainstream media and tabloids. I know we are all disappointed with the way airbnb handled the situation, but we really shouldn't be happy if all the sensation seeking press starts using this to boost their sales, and in the process damages this market beyond repair.
- al_james 15y ago
  I think this may be the Hindenburg moment for services like this built purely on trust. Trust alone is a naive defence that only works when your user base is small and well aligned with your core concepts. In many ways its the coming of age of the concept when it starts appealing to crooks. Mandatory insurance and more strict user verification is the only way this kind of service will survive.
  - grandalf 15y ago
    Crooks? Someone that would seriously vandalize someone's home is not really a "crook" but a victim of some sort of mental health problem. There will always (in any area of life) be a small percentage of people who do that sort of thing.
    - ashconnor 15y ago
      The perp also stole money, passports etc.
      - grandalf 15y ago
        Yeah but crooks is the biggest understatement I've ever heard. This is a bizarre, mean-spirited act... not simply theft.
    - wglb 15y ago
      Wait--so the guy who trashed the house is a victim?
adnam 15y ago
Why would anyone give the keys to their home to a total stranger? (And leave them on their own for a whole week?)
- ed209 15y ago
  And if you do, you should take as many precautions as possible. Airbnb handled this badly, but in truth it can just as easily happen to anyone renting out a property. I don't understand why Airbnb aren't as rigorous as regular rental companies? And why they are not better educating their customers on security and crime prevention.
  - hack_edu 15y ago
    > I don't understand why Airbnb aren't as rigorous as regular rental companies? Because they wouldn't be profitable if they were, it's too complicated and doesn't fit in their model. The regular rental companies would soon copy their model outpace them if they went that route. Did anyone ask about this in their YC interviews? ;)
- ry0ohki 15y ago
  One word that answers most of these types of questions: money
- xd 15y ago
  I'd like to think that most people go through life being trustful of their fellow human .. no matter how horrid a world the media paints.
  - danparsonson 15y ago
    As a famous man once said: "Trust, but verify".
    - sausagefeet 15y ago
      Citation plz.
bproper 15y ago
It would cost a fraction of their recent raise to make this woman whole again, at least financially. They should have brought her in, given her a heartfelt apology from the executive team, and paid her a large lump sum. In return she would sign a NDA.
- adnam 15y ago
  That wouldn't fix the underlying trust problem.
  - theklub 15y ago
    Trust problem with AIrbnb? Or trust that if you let a random person into your house they aren't going to do anything harmful. I don't think Airbnb is to blame at all here, its kind of like blaming craigslist because you go ripped off when trying to sell something but got ripped off instead. If you rent your house out to random people you should protect yourself against having your life ruined if something does happen.
    - TWAndrews 15y ago
      It's not AirBnB's fault per se, but it's definitely their problem, because it puts their entire business model in doubt.
- user24 15y ago
  > In return she would sign a NDA Would work OK if she took it, but only until it happens the next time. AirBNB cannot afford to make 'pay them to shut up' a policy. And if she took the moral highground, it would look very bad indeed. And the money could not replace the stolen personal items, which makes her accepting "take this cash and shut up about it" less likely.
  - michael_dorfman 15y ago
    AirBNB cannot afford to make 'pay them to shut up' a policy. Are you sure about that? I imagine it depends on how often it occurs, and what kind of liability insurance they can arrange. Since they claim to have over 2 million uses of their system, and this is the first case we're hearing about, I'd suggest that it may in fact be the case that they cannot afford not to have a 'pay them to shut up' policy.
Omnipresent 15y ago
never imagined this type of thing would happen in startups - top level bureaucracy. Doesn't this happen in big corps? Maybe I'm looking at this whole black cloud of bad PR in a simplistic way but why is it so hard to bring EJ over or fly over to her, assess the situation, put her in a hotel, replace her stuff, help her find a new place. Doing that will get AirBnB much much more popularity than their famous cereal box story that we've heard so much of.
shareme 15y ago
Its not a customer service issue..hold on wait..let me explain.. Its an identity problem..How do you have processes and procedures in place that uses identity as the qualifier of being able to trust a person to temp rent to ? Fro example, world wide what do we use as the identifier to get all this info? Is it a credit card number? Is it a credit card number and other pieces of info? Look at the processes of PayPal..similar identity/trust problem or Amazon Stores.. I submit that Airbnb has not solved the identity/trust set of problems yet and that is their stumbling block not reactions to customer problems as the techmedia has blarred..
- michael_dorfman 15y ago
  I agree that they haven't solved the identity/trust set of problems. However, in the absence of a solution to those problems, it's the customer service issue that's killing them. If they had been aggressive in their customer service, reaching out to EJ, and doing whatever it took to resolve the situation, plus some, they could have turned this into a PR coup, or at least, mitigated the fall-out substantially. Instead, they magnified the problem significantly.
- giardini 15y ago
  The identity/trust set of problems was solved long ago by hotels and most other businesses: when the customer arrives you meet him, check his id, get payment info and show him his room. You can take pictures of him if you wish (e.g., security cameras in the lobby). A check-out process should also occur. The AirBnB contract should be between rentor and owner of rental property: AirBnB's participation should be only as an agent. That limits liability and makes clear what is expected of each party. IMO AirBnB should not be responsible. This is looking more and more like a shakedown of AirBnB or preparation for a lawsuit.
  - Aloisius 15y ago
    Exactly. Every vacation rental I've ever had asked me for my ID and often, a refundable deposit to cover damages. When I used AirBnB in Paris, the owner asked to see my passport.
dbuizert 15y ago
I think more importantly, could this have been prevented? They should have done the proper research on the risks involved. They should also have provided users with a quick (even webpage) on risks involved and precautions people can take and make. And provide the users more background info on the renter. It's not as simple as running a hotel. To me this looks and feels like a story of simple thinking and bad iterating. I doubt this is the only case out there. There should have been a lot of minor issues as well. And we all know it starts small before it becomes a tornado and tears your house and community down.
zwieback 15y ago
My first thought was "business opportunity to offer insurance to airbnb customers". Apparently there are already websites up to do just that.
- rmc 15y ago
  Good luck being able to cover all a person's personal heirlooms that cost thousands.
  - aeden 15y ago
    As long as the volume of insurance related payouts is small enough and the volume of customers purchasing insurance is large enough, then it's a viable business model. In fact, that's how insurance works (and how it stops working when there are major catastrophes that cause the number of claims to spike dramatically).
  - zwieback 15y ago
    Usually property insurance works as a percentage of the insured amount. If I were to rent out my house I'd put my treasured heirlooms into storage/safe deposit box.
- aeden 15y ago
  It looks like AirBnB themselves may also be working on providing an insurance policy. I wonder if it'll cost extra? http://launch.is/blog/airbnb-confirms-insurance-in-case-your-pad-gets-trashed.html http://launch.is/blog/airbnb-confirms-insurance-in-case-your...
helwr 15y ago
There is no such thing as bad publicity
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  BS. Perhaps the vast majority of publicity can be made positive for you, but if you screw up in your handling, you can get eaten alive. AirBnB had a chance to make this publicity tolerable. Instead, they worried about "precedent" and "cost" and, in a fit of immaturity, tried to sweep it under the rug. Every one of those actions have magnified the severity of this crisis. Now, instead of them being in the drivers seat of the story with some control of the fire, they are subject to whatever the winds want to do with it. In both cases, stuff gets burned, but it's usually not houses, businesses, and people in a controlled burn.
chailatte 15y ago
At this point in time, I wonder if it's in pg's best interest to cut loss, and sever the relationship with airbnb altogether. Sell yc's stake in airbnb, and avoid talking about them ever again. Sure, airbnb has a $1b valuation for now. But does anybody really think they're worth $1b after this, and only on an estimated $10M cumulative revenue? (not to mention the pending stock market collapse and IPO window closing, precipitated by US default next Tuesday) They have a pretty toxic public image now amongst early adopters, and will only get worse. They have a business process which now appears to be broken, and it will cut into their already miniscule revenue to fix it. They do not have a moral/charismatic leader that can guide them thorough an important crisis like this. They are deemed illegal in many parts of US, and will likely be more so later once more mainstream media picks up on it. On top of that, they are destroying yc's precarious image. And they're dragging this entire mess on all the other yc's startups (the other yc founders have to stand up to defend airbnb. Other applicants realizes that the best performing company in yc is one that does evil)
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  With the exception on the potential hit to AirBnB, I think you've overstated every single claim in your post. Of course, I have no evidence of market effects; only time will tell, but YC is not going to be judged and thrown out as unworthy because one company has a significant (perhaps deadly to the company) issue. And why does YC have a "precarious image"? I've never heard anything of that nature. Every YC person whom I've spoken to (albeit not a huge percentage!) has loved the program.
  - trebor 15y ago
    Some aging statistical research shows that if you have a bad experience you'll share it with 26 other people; having a good experience nets only 13 people. Multiply that by the internet and predict the market effects. As disastrous as this is to EJ and her life, I think it'll be the utter ruin of AirBnB.
- waterside81 15y ago
  Where did you see that AirBnB has only 10M cumulative revenue? That seems way too low.
Havoc 15y ago
>These included doubling the size of its customer support team, setting up a 24-hour telephone hotline, and offering insurance products. That is a pretty weak response. Peddling insurance...really? Even worse I can't really think of a better response. i.e. The model might be inherently flawed & un-fixable.
gaurav_v 15y ago
The last line of her most recent blog post pretty much sums up the entire thrust of her story and its problems for Airbnb: "And for those who have so generously suggested a donation fund be set up to help me recover, I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and suggest that instead, you keep the money and use it to book yourself into a nice, safe hotel room the next time you travel. You’ll be glad you did."
- SteveJS 15y ago
  How does using a hotel when you travel, help prevent your home from being burglarized while you're away?
indrax 15y ago
Other times when people get their houses ransacked while on vacation, we don't have a flap of stories about the post office leaving mail in the mailboxes. A criminal decided to use AirBNB to find an empty apartment and provide cover. It is important for them to react well to this, but they just can't provide real security. And they shouldn't have to, they're matchmakers. All this media attention is going to make them feel like they need to do everything, but past the basics of providing good customer service lies a few good measures and a lot of security theater. They're being hammered to do the impossible because they are novel.
robak 15y ago
Do I read it right? Some people are so dumb that you need to explain to them that renting to total strangers is risky? Wow!

318 points by arghnoname 15y ago

There's nothing new in the actual story. I thought it's placement on the front page (below the fold) of the print edition was significant. It's not exactly a tech publication.

notexactly 15y ago
I don't know what you mean by It's not exactly a tech publication. but this is not exactly a tech problem, this is a general business problem.
- corin_ 15y ago
  OK seriously, why did you feel the need to create a fake account to post that from?
  - danparsonson 15y ago
    I don't get it - couldn't it just be the first time (s)he has commented? I originally made my account in order to post my first reply to something.
    - corin_ 15y ago
      Note the name chosen, and the second and third words that (s)he quoted.
      - jonknee 15y ago
        Maybe it's the start of a reddit like novelty account. There sure are a lot of "not exactly" situations on HN. Could make a karma mint on any patent thread.
        hugh3 15y ago
        Wow, now I wish I'd thought of having a notexactly account. Maybe I'll have to settle for yesbut
        notexactly 15y ago
        You may have this one (if you can live with a throwaway). I have posted my original account in a comment above. It has my email ID in it. Email me and I will give you the password. Before that I will make a comment here stating that I have transfered the account and will wait till the delete option is gone. Seems fair?
        chc 15y ago
        Is it still called a "mint" if it's all downvotes?
      - robtoo 15y ago
        I'd just assume that they needed to create an account to comment and picked the first username that came to mind. Quite logically, this was a couple of words from the reply that they had already formulated in their mind.
  - neutronicus 15y ago
    Don't new users show up as green?
  - notexactly 15y ago
    Just to be clear to all the posters here, yes this is a throw away. I made this throw away because that is how I use HN. I had a good account a few months back called rick_2047[1] (yes that guy!). After that one got hell banned (my second or third hell ban I think) I have observed that I digress from most of the HN community on the meaning of the term "trolling". No biggie HN people, thats just a different point of view. No hard feelings (but I still would like that account back or at least have it purged)[2]. I don't have a strong urge to post comments these days (that is a con) but I am less of a karma whore now (thats a pro). Most of the articles here were and still are very irrelevant to me. I am not doing any startups so don't need all that knowledge and am not into CS so don't read those articles as well. But every once in a while something interesting and generic (as generic as it gets on HN) comes up and I feel the urge to comment. PG made it really easy to make a new account. I chose a few words relevant the comment and then post it. I check the thread for a day or two (because they are not active after that, also I usually don't post very interesting stuff). I read the guidelines and all. I didn't find any clause stating that one cannot have multiple accounts. If I have missed something please do tell me. But even after that I know I will keep doing this, but at least I know I am doing something illegal. [1]http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=rick_2047 http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=rick_2047 (I think I made kind of a record with this one, of the most unpopular comment of all time, still would like conformation on that) [2] If PG is reading this, which he most probably isn't, if you can be so kind and purge my account that would be great. Thanks in advance.
jsavimbi 15y ago
> (below the fold) web 1.0 term now in disuse. As soon as a story, any story, is disseminated by a world renown publication such as the Financial Times, it might as well be the main story for the amount of time the long tail decides to keep it alive. It's a business problem; the tech part to AirBnB was just the application. Developers should get used to the fact that their apps grow up, move away and marry business people.
- michael_h 15y ago
  Point taken, but 'below the fold' is most assuredly not a web 1.0 term when we're talking about a printed publication.
  - jsavimbi 15y ago
    In today's terms, a printed publication is entirely below the fold.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  The "fold" doesn't refer to the bottom of the screen, but to the crease in a newspaper. Above the fold were the headlines that drew buyers because they could be seen in news stands and such. Below the fold were those that couldn't. Being above the fold on the front page meant your story was a big deal. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/below_the_fold http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/below_the_fold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Above_the_fold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Above_the_fold It was a newspaper term that got repurposed on the web before user experience studies (not the "versioning" of the web) showed it wasn't nearly as important as it is in newspapers.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
______ 15y ago
What is "new" is that this is now getting a lot of exposure in the non-tech press, which it wasn't before. Techcrunch is relatively niche compared to FT, and hacker news is even more niche. What this means for AirBnb is that for a great many readers of FT, if they haven't heard of AirBnB before, will have an opinion that the service is inherently unsafe (even if this is the 0.001% story). And once someone makes up their opinion on a product or service, it is very hard to make them change

pseudonym 15y ago

I'm a little surprised it took this long to start showing up in print, as it were. I'll also be interested in seeing if they do a followup with her latest post.

o1iver 15y ago
This long? The initial blog post went viral yesterday only... So to be in todays print edition I guess they wrote it last night or during the night...
- pseudonym 15y ago
  Yes, but the actual incident and blog post was weeks ago, and this is the kind of combination of thing that rags like to pick up on-- harshly-treated victim, forgotten by an up-and-coming company that doesn't know how to spin PR properly.
  - o1iver 15y ago
    Yeah, but do you think that they follow all the blogs by non-celebrities... no
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]

Uchikoma 15y ago

Danger, Will Robinson.

civild 15y ago

It won't be long until the tabloids pick this up and run with it, applying their own sensationalist inaccuracies. I think Airbnb have to act quickly to fix this before it turns into a Fox affiliate human interest story and damages their reputation irreconcilably.

corin_ 15y ago
Can't speak to American papers, but it certainly won't be big news in UK tabloids, if it's mentioned at all. The FT cares because it's business, tabloids won't care because it's not a particularly well-known business (over here).
- swombat 15y ago
  tabloids won't care because it's not a particularly well-known business (over here). 1) I actually started using Airbnb because a non-technical friend used it and said it was great. It's more widespread than you think, even in Europe. 2) Tabloids will love the human interest angle, and be quite happy to blame "internet startups" in general for ruining this person's life. Accuracy is optional in a lynch mob.
  - corin_ 15y ago
    I suspect you're wrong, but perhaps I am, who knows. The way I see it is we've all heard of Hilton or Marriot hotels, and if something went down in a hotel room in one of those chains, papers wouldn't cover it because of the company, their decision would be based purely on how interesting what happened was. In this case, someone having their appartment robbed, without tying it into business/tech it's not all that interesting as news. So, while people may know the name of AirBNB (I still suspect that actually not a huge number over here know it, just seems more widespread because it only takes a few non-tech people to know about something well known in the tech scene for it to seem widespread to us), I don't know if people who care about it only for the rooms, and don't care about the actual company, will give much thought to this news.
    - 15y ago

karl11 15y ago

Has there been any verification anywhere that this actually happened, beyond just two blog posts?

kafene 15y ago
I would take the response by brianchesky as an authoritative source indicating that it did actually happen.
- asmithmd1 15y ago
  It just seems a little too perfect to me. With the amount of money at stake in disrupting the hotel business it is not impossible that the event was staged. Her writing is just a little too perfect and why doesn't she respond to emails from the press? http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare-apartment-trashed-safety-renters/178966/1 http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011... It seems like the only person who has talked to her is the CEO of airbnb
  - danso 15y ago
    With his business model at stake, don't you think the CEO is smart enough to do some basic vetting before giving a response that acknowledges the veracity of the alleged crime? EJ may be anonymous to the rest of the world (though her blog has lengthy posts from as long as two years ago...pretty good trolling setup if she were a troll, even though you can backdate posts), but presumably, airbnb has all of her personal information, and as an tech-savvy startup, has conducted basic online research of her (her credit card was obviously valid; does she have a FB account. does googling her bring up any connection to the hotel industry, etc.?)
    - corin_ 15y ago
      I'm not jumping on the conspiracy theory bandwagon and think that the idea is nonsense, but hypotheticall, if I were trying to make Airbnb look bad (and had had spare cash to do it with), I wouldn't just pay someone to say it happened, I'd also per someone to rent the appartment, and actually do this stuff, so that any checks show the crime did indeed happen.

Ygor 15y ago

The question now is will this be the Hindenburg moment of this type of services, or is it just a speed bump? We'll see how all this bad press is going to spread across the rest of the mainstream media and tabloids. I know we are all disappointed with the way airbnb handled the situation, but we really shouldn't be happy if all the sensation seeking press starts using this to boost their sales, and in the process damages this market beyond repair.

al_james 15y ago
I think this may be the Hindenburg moment for services like this built purely on trust. Trust alone is a naive defence that only works when your user base is small and well aligned with your core concepts. In many ways its the coming of age of the concept when it starts appealing to crooks. Mandatory insurance and more strict user verification is the only way this kind of service will survive.
- grandalf 15y ago
  Crooks? Someone that would seriously vandalize someone's home is not really a "crook" but a victim of some sort of mental health problem. There will always (in any area of life) be a small percentage of people who do that sort of thing.
  - ashconnor 15y ago
    The perp also stole money, passports etc.
    - grandalf 15y ago
      Yeah but crooks is the biggest understatement I've ever heard. This is a bizarre, mean-spirited act... not simply theft.
  - wglb 15y ago
    Wait--so the guy who trashed the house is a victim?

adnam 15y ago

Why would anyone give the keys to their home to a total stranger? (And leave them on their own for a whole week?)

ed209 15y ago
And if you do, you should take as many precautions as possible. Airbnb handled this badly, but in truth it can just as easily happen to anyone renting out a property. I don't understand why Airbnb aren't as rigorous as regular rental companies? And why they are not better educating their customers on security and crime prevention.
- hack_edu 15y ago
  > I don't understand why Airbnb aren't as rigorous as regular rental companies? Because they wouldn't be profitable if they were, it's too complicated and doesn't fit in their model. The regular rental companies would soon copy their model outpace them if they went that route. Did anyone ask about this in their YC interviews? ;)
ry0ohki 15y ago
One word that answers most of these types of questions: money
xd 15y ago
I'd like to think that most people go through life being trustful of their fellow human .. no matter how horrid a world the media paints.
- danparsonson 15y ago
  As a famous man once said: "Trust, but verify".
  - sausagefeet 15y ago
    Citation plz.

bproper 15y ago

It would cost a fraction of their recent raise to make this woman whole again, at least financially. They should have brought her in, given her a heartfelt apology from the executive team, and paid her a large lump sum. In return she would sign a NDA.

adnam 15y ago
That wouldn't fix the underlying trust problem.
- theklub 15y ago
  Trust problem with AIrbnb? Or trust that if you let a random person into your house they aren't going to do anything harmful. I don't think Airbnb is to blame at all here, its kind of like blaming craigslist because you go ripped off when trying to sell something but got ripped off instead. If you rent your house out to random people you should protect yourself against having your life ruined if something does happen.
  - TWAndrews 15y ago
    It's not AirBnB's fault per se, but it's definitely their problem, because it puts their entire business model in doubt.
user24 15y ago
> In return she would sign a NDA Would work OK if she took it, but only until it happens the next time. AirBNB cannot afford to make 'pay them to shut up' a policy. And if she took the moral highground, it would look very bad indeed. And the money could not replace the stolen personal items, which makes her accepting "take this cash and shut up about it" less likely.
- michael_dorfman 15y ago
  AirBNB cannot afford to make 'pay them to shut up' a policy. Are you sure about that? I imagine it depends on how often it occurs, and what kind of liability insurance they can arrange. Since they claim to have over 2 million uses of their system, and this is the first case we're hearing about, I'd suggest that it may in fact be the case that they cannot afford not to have a 'pay them to shut up' policy.

Omnipresent 15y ago

never imagined this type of thing would happen in startups - top level bureaucracy. Doesn't this happen in big corps? Maybe I'm looking at this whole black cloud of bad PR in a simplistic way but why is it so hard to bring EJ over or fly over to her, assess the situation, put her in a hotel, replace her stuff, help her find a new place. Doing that will get AirBnB much much more popularity than their famous cereal box story that we've heard so much of.

shareme 15y ago

Its not a customer service issue..hold on wait..let me explain.. Its an identity problem..How do you have processes and procedures in place that uses identity as the qualifier of being able to trust a person to temp rent to ? Fro example, world wide what do we use as the identifier to get all this info? Is it a credit card number? Is it a credit card number and other pieces of info? Look at the processes of PayPal..similar identity/trust problem or Amazon Stores.. I submit that Airbnb has not solved the identity/trust set of problems yet and that is their stumbling block not reactions to customer problems as the techmedia has blarred..

michael_dorfman 15y ago
I agree that they haven't solved the identity/trust set of problems. However, in the absence of a solution to those problems, it's the customer service issue that's killing them. If they had been aggressive in their customer service, reaching out to EJ, and doing whatever it took to resolve the situation, plus some, they could have turned this into a PR coup, or at least, mitigated the fall-out substantially. Instead, they magnified the problem significantly.
giardini 15y ago
The identity/trust set of problems was solved long ago by hotels and most other businesses: when the customer arrives you meet him, check his id, get payment info and show him his room. You can take pictures of him if you wish (e.g., security cameras in the lobby). A check-out process should also occur. The AirBnB contract should be between rentor and owner of rental property: AirBnB's participation should be only as an agent. That limits liability and makes clear what is expected of each party. IMO AirBnB should not be responsible. This is looking more and more like a shakedown of AirBnB or preparation for a lawsuit.
- Aloisius 15y ago
  Exactly. Every vacation rental I've ever had asked me for my ID and often, a refundable deposit to cover damages. When I used AirBnB in Paris, the owner asked to see my passport.

dbuizert 15y ago

I think more importantly, could this have been prevented? They should have done the proper research on the risks involved. They should also have provided users with a quick (even webpage) on risks involved and precautions people can take and make. And provide the users more background info on the renter. It's not as simple as running a hotel. To me this looks and feels like a story of simple thinking and bad iterating. I doubt this is the only case out there. There should have been a lot of minor issues as well. And we all know it starts small before it becomes a tornado and tears your house and community down.

zwieback 15y ago

My first thought was "business opportunity to offer insurance to airbnb customers". Apparently there are already websites up to do just that.

rmc 15y ago
Good luck being able to cover all a person's personal heirlooms that cost thousands.
- aeden 15y ago
  As long as the volume of insurance related payouts is small enough and the volume of customers purchasing insurance is large enough, then it's a viable business model. In fact, that's how insurance works (and how it stops working when there are major catastrophes that cause the number of claims to spike dramatically).
- zwieback 15y ago
  Usually property insurance works as a percentage of the insured amount. If I were to rent out my house I'd put my treasured heirlooms into storage/safe deposit box.
aeden 15y ago
It looks like AirBnB themselves may also be working on providing an insurance policy. I wonder if it'll cost extra? http://launch.is/blog/airbnb-confirms-insurance-in-case-your-pad-gets-trashed.html http://launch.is/blog/airbnb-confirms-insurance-in-case-your...

helwr 15y ago

There is no such thing as bad publicity

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
BS. Perhaps the vast majority of publicity can be made positive for you, but if you screw up in your handling, you can get eaten alive. AirBnB had a chance to make this publicity tolerable. Instead, they worried about "precedent" and "cost" and, in a fit of immaturity, tried to sweep it under the rug. Every one of those actions have magnified the severity of this crisis. Now, instead of them being in the drivers seat of the story with some control of the fire, they are subject to whatever the winds want to do with it. In both cases, stuff gets burned, but it's usually not houses, businesses, and people in a controlled burn.

chailatte 15y ago

At this point in time, I wonder if it's in pg's best interest to cut loss, and sever the relationship with airbnb altogether. Sell yc's stake in airbnb, and avoid talking about them ever again. Sure, airbnb has a $1b valuation for now. But does anybody really think they're worth $1b after this, and only on an estimated $10M cumulative revenue? (not to mention the pending stock market collapse and IPO window closing, precipitated by US default next Tuesday) They have a pretty toxic public image now amongst early adopters, and will only get worse. They have a business process which now appears to be broken, and it will cut into their already miniscule revenue to fix it. They do not have a moral/charismatic leader that can guide them thorough an important crisis like this. They are deemed illegal in many parts of US, and will likely be more so later once more mainstream media picks up on it. On top of that, they are destroying yc's precarious image. And they're dragging this entire mess on all the other yc's startups (the other yc founders have to stand up to defend airbnb. Other applicants realizes that the best performing company in yc is one that does evil)

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
With the exception on the potential hit to AirBnB, I think you've overstated every single claim in your post. Of course, I have no evidence of market effects; only time will tell, but YC is not going to be judged and thrown out as unworthy because one company has a significant (perhaps deadly to the company) issue. And why does YC have a "precarious image"? I've never heard anything of that nature. Every YC person whom I've spoken to (albeit not a huge percentage!) has loved the program.
- trebor 15y ago
  Some aging statistical research shows that if you have a bad experience you'll share it with 26 other people; having a good experience nets only 13 people. Multiply that by the internet and predict the market effects. As disastrous as this is to EJ and her life, I think it'll be the utter ruin of AirBnB.
waterside81 15y ago
Where did you see that AirBnB has only 10M cumulative revenue? That seems way too low.

Havoc 15y ago

>These included doubling the size of its customer support team, setting up a 24-hour telephone hotline, and offering insurance products. That is a pretty weak response. Peddling insurance...really? Even worse I can't really think of a better response. i.e. The model might be inherently flawed & un-fixable.

gaurav_v 15y ago

The last line of her most recent blog post pretty much sums up the entire thrust of her story and its problems for Airbnb: "And for those who have so generously suggested a donation fund be set up to help me recover, I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and suggest that instead, you keep the money and use it to book yourself into a nice, safe hotel room the next time you travel. You’ll be glad you did."

SteveJS 15y ago
How does using a hotel when you travel, help prevent your home from being burglarized while you're away?

indrax 15y ago

Other times when people get their houses ransacked while on vacation, we don't have a flap of stories about the post office leaving mail in the mailboxes. A criminal decided to use AirBNB to find an empty apartment and provide cover. It is important for them to react well to this, but they just can't provide real security. And they shouldn't have to, they're matchmakers. All this media attention is going to make them feel like they need to do everything, but past the basics of providing good customer service lies a few good measures and a lot of security theater. They're being hammered to do the impossible because they are novel.

robak 15y ago

Do I read it right? Some people are so dumb that you need to explain to them that renting to total strangers is risky? Wow!