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The keyboard asks for full access which is okay BUT... Apple says keyboards have to work if the user denies full access. That's reasonable BUT... FlickType cla

The keyboard asks for full access which is okay BUT... Apple says keyboards have to work if the user denies full access. That's reasonable BUT... FlickType claims it does work without full access as long as you have VoiceOver turned on. I don't think it's unreasonable for Apple to require the keyboard works without VoiceOver turned on but it sounds like they've allowed this in the past. It sounds like they've gone back and forth with Apple on this multiple times. I'm not sure why they don't just "make it work" without VoiceOver turned on so they can avoid this landmine every time they submit an update. Maybe that would be a huge amount of work, but it seems like implementing a crappy basic keyboard shouldn't be too bad.

echelon 5y ago
How about Apple stop telling people what they can and can't do with the hardware they purchase? Their reach shouldn't extend this far. This company is a money-grubbing dragon and is shitting on innovation left and right so it can maintain control over its money pile. After the initial purchase, Apple should no longer have decision power beyond patching their software. If they do a good job, you buy a new one. Apple got lucky enough to ride two of the biggest growth engines in modern history, but that does not entitle them to behave like mobile computing is their own totalitarian state. Just because you own some land doesn't mean you can tax air and tell people when and how they can breathe. Support congress in their attempt to break up the App Stores and prevent this sort of strong-arming. Call and email your reps. Tell them you want the "Open App Markets Act" to be a strong system of protections for individual small businesses and device owners. People deserve choice, a fair playing field, and the right to repair and use their devices as they see fit. https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representati... https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm The future of open computing and right to repair depends on it.
- zepto 5y ago
  How is that approach working out for accessibility on other platforms?
  - azemetre 5y ago
    Poorly, Apple is one of the best at hardware when it comes to a11y. Even their smart watches are great when reading their data viz's: https://fossheim.io/writing/posts/apple-health-dataviz-a11y/ https://fossheim.io/writing/posts/apple-health-dataviz-a11y/
    - Jtsummers 5y ago
      Off topic, but where did this "-11y" thing come from for words like "accessibility"? Why not just write "accessibility", when that's more accessible to people who aren't in the in-group that has decided on a bizarre abbreviation?
      - vmladenov 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeronym https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeronym > According to Tex Texin, the first numeronym of this kind was "S12n", the electronic mail account name given to Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) employee Jan Scherpenhuizen by a system administrator because his surname was too long to be an account name. By 1985, colleagues who found Jan's name unpronounceable often referred to him verbally as "S12n" (ess-twelve-en). The use of such numeronyms became part of DEC corporate culture.
        Jtsummers 5y ago
        Yeah, I just found a few others like it. I'll still contend it's a great way to bar people from a conversation because it means nothing to the majority. Which seems like a bizarre choice for a topic called "accessibility".
        mikestew 5y ago
        I don't think that people who can't be bothered to learn the pronunciation of their coworker's names are people to be emulated. We learned "Schwarzenegger", we can learn how to pronounce Jan's name, I'm sure.
- f6v 5y ago
  Honestly want to know: why buy iPhone then? There’re plenty of alternatives.
  - thayne 5y ago
    Not really. Almost everything else runs Android which is only marginally better. The only devices where you really have full control over your device are barely functional, and cost more for lower specs.
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      If people bought alternatives they’d be better, tho
    - jsjohnst 5y ago
      > cost more for lower specs That's in part because of economy of scale, but also another major factor IMHO is the subsidizing by other revenue sources (App Store commissions in case of Apple/Google, advertising/essentially spyware in the case of some others).
      - thayne 5y ago
        That might be a small part of it, but I think the economy of scale, and inability to buy the same parts at the same price as the bigger players is a much larger factor.
    - f6v 5y ago
      But it’s much easier to root and install FOSS on Android hardware.
  - withinboredom 5y ago
    There’s not, really. I bought the first iPod touch because it was a cool toy. I got the iPhone and I remember jail breaking it and using Cydia. Then, years later, it turns out Apple is a dick when it comes to the App Store. But now I’ve invested hundreds (if not thousands) on apps and features. Simply switching over wouldn’t be easy. Some apps I have were single-purchase apps originally, but now have monthly subscriptions (that I don’t pay because of my original license!); if I were to switch os’s, I’d have to pay a monthly fee. I can’t use FaceTime on other OS’s, which is (sadly) the only way to talk to my parents. So, as of right now, there’s no alternative for me. I have had androids in the past, and I prefer them. But the switch-over cost is huge. It’s not simple. I’m looking forward to the day with “multi-platform stores” where I make a single purchase and the OS is merely a personal choice… this is the future Apple and Google are trying to avoid, imho.
- Bud 5y ago
  Every part of this is bullshit. First, Apple is driving innovation, obviously, not "shitting on it". Second, no, Apple should retain the power it has over how software works on its platform, the vast majority of users emphatically want that, and that is because of the various concrete benefits the approach has. Third, no, Apple did not "get lucky" and "ride" the growth engines in question, especially in the case of the modern smartphone. It created that engine. Fourth, your comparison to controlling how people breathe is ludicrous. Fifth, no: we will not be asking Congress to break up Apple's sensible security controls over its platform, because we fucking like them. Sixth, this issue has absolutely nothing to do with the right to repair.
  - echelon 5y ago
    > Every part of this is bullshit. To some Apple fans, employees, and shareholders. Plenty of people agree with me and hate Apple's shitty behavior. Many of them would be happy Apple customers if Apple would knock off the bad behavior (myself included). Unfortunately this issue won't go away by ignoring Apple. It will remain a plague on small developers and the industry as a whole as long as Apple is allowed to continue their anti-competitive, anti-consumer practices. > First, Apple is driving innovation, obviously, not "shitting on it". Areas where they do substantially innovate (M1) are driven by a desire to control the supply chain. Other innovations (AirTags, AirPods, Mac, iPhone) are stale or copies of other innovations. Apple has enough firepower to decimate entire product areas by cloning and integrating them with their ecosystem. Maybe they look and feel superior? That's because Apple is a Death Star of engineering that you can't compete with. Many people feel software companies should not be hardware, platform/distribution, and services combined. Especially at scale. > Second, no, Apple should retain the power it has over how software works on its platform, the vast majority of users emphatically want that, and that is because of the various concrete benefits the approach has. That doesn't mean it's healthy for the world. Apple is the de-facto computer for 50% of Americans, and they impose taxation on all commerce and Baptism for all developers working on the platform. Apple is unilaterally controlling 50% of modern client code execution. That is single handedly the most unhealthy problem with modern computing. > Third, no, Apple did not "get lucky" and "ride" the growth engines in question, especially in the case of the modern smartphone. It created that engine. Patently false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone Apple took the lead at an inflection point. Others were already developing similar devices, but Apple had brand recognition, the iPod ecosystem, and enough polish to pull ahead by a large margin. Steve was a fantastic product person, and Apple had the software and logistics to make an awesome device. But this was a competitive edge, not a Bell Labs moment. > Fourth, your comparison to controlling how people breathe is ludicrous. Not really. Have you had your software denied by Apple? Have you had to use their dev tools? I'm sick of it. I also own dozens of devices for motion capture that I would like to remove from the Apple toolchain entirely. I bought the hardware and don't care about the App Store. > Fifth, no: we will not be asking Congress to break up Apple's sensible security controls over its platform, because we fucking like them. Well, I am and have been asking. I know plenty of others that are too. > Sixth, this issue has absolutely nothing to do with the right to repair. Oh yes it does. It also has to do with the file scanning on your devices where Apple treats you like a child predator / terrorist / whistle blower / state enemy. Apple is the opposite of "too big to fail". It's "too dangerous to let live". It needs to be regulated.

echelon 5y ago

How about Apple stop telling people what they can and can't do with the hardware they purchase? Their reach shouldn't extend this far. This company is a money-grubbing dragon and is shitting on innovation left and right so it can maintain control over its money pile. After the initial purchase, Apple should no longer have decision power beyond patching their software. If they do a good job, you buy a new one. Apple got lucky enough to ride two of the biggest growth engines in modern history, but that does not entitle them to behave like mobile computing is their own totalitarian state. Just because you own some land doesn't mean you can tax air and tell people when and how they can breathe. Support congress in their attempt to break up the App Stores and prevent this sort of strong-arming. Call and email your reps. Tell them you want the "Open App Markets Act" to be a strong system of protections for individual small businesses and device owners. People deserve choice, a fair playing field, and the right to repair and use their devices as they see fit. https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representati... https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm The future of open computing and right to repair depends on it.

zepto 5y ago
How is that approach working out for accessibility on other platforms?
- azemetre 5y ago
  Poorly, Apple is one of the best at hardware when it comes to a11y. Even their smart watches are great when reading their data viz's: https://fossheim.io/writing/posts/apple-health-dataviz-a11y/ https://fossheim.io/writing/posts/apple-health-dataviz-a11y/
  - Jtsummers 5y ago
    Off topic, but where did this "-11y" thing come from for words like "accessibility"? Why not just write "accessibility", when that's more accessible to people who aren't in the in-group that has decided on a bizarre abbreviation?
    - vmladenov 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeronym https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeronym > According to Tex Texin, the first numeronym of this kind was "S12n", the electronic mail account name given to Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) employee Jan Scherpenhuizen by a system administrator because his surname was too long to be an account name. By 1985, colleagues who found Jan's name unpronounceable often referred to him verbally as "S12n" (ess-twelve-en). The use of such numeronyms became part of DEC corporate culture.
      - Jtsummers 5y ago
        Yeah, I just found a few others like it. I'll still contend it's a great way to bar people from a conversation because it means nothing to the majority. Which seems like a bizarre choice for a topic called "accessibility".
      - mikestew 5y ago
        I don't think that people who can't be bothered to learn the pronunciation of their coworker's names are people to be emulated. We learned "Schwarzenegger", we can learn how to pronounce Jan's name, I'm sure.
f6v 5y ago
Honestly want to know: why buy iPhone then? There’re plenty of alternatives.
- thayne 5y ago
  Not really. Almost everything else runs Android which is only marginally better. The only devices where you really have full control over your device are barely functional, and cost more for lower specs.
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    If people bought alternatives they’d be better, tho
  - jsjohnst 5y ago
    > cost more for lower specs That's in part because of economy of scale, but also another major factor IMHO is the subsidizing by other revenue sources (App Store commissions in case of Apple/Google, advertising/essentially spyware in the case of some others).
    - thayne 5y ago
      That might be a small part of it, but I think the economy of scale, and inability to buy the same parts at the same price as the bigger players is a much larger factor.
  - f6v 5y ago
    But it’s much easier to root and install FOSS on Android hardware.
- withinboredom 5y ago
  There’s not, really. I bought the first iPod touch because it was a cool toy. I got the iPhone and I remember jail breaking it and using Cydia. Then, years later, it turns out Apple is a dick when it comes to the App Store. But now I’ve invested hundreds (if not thousands) on apps and features. Simply switching over wouldn’t be easy. Some apps I have were single-purchase apps originally, but now have monthly subscriptions (that I don’t pay because of my original license!); if I were to switch os’s, I’d have to pay a monthly fee. I can’t use FaceTime on other OS’s, which is (sadly) the only way to talk to my parents. So, as of right now, there’s no alternative for me. I have had androids in the past, and I prefer them. But the switch-over cost is huge. It’s not simple. I’m looking forward to the day with “multi-platform stores” where I make a single purchase and the OS is merely a personal choice… this is the future Apple and Google are trying to avoid, imho.
Bud 5y ago
Every part of this is bullshit. First, Apple is driving innovation, obviously, not "shitting on it". Second, no, Apple should retain the power it has over how software works on its platform, the vast majority of users emphatically want that, and that is because of the various concrete benefits the approach has. Third, no, Apple did not "get lucky" and "ride" the growth engines in question, especially in the case of the modern smartphone. It created that engine. Fourth, your comparison to controlling how people breathe is ludicrous. Fifth, no: we will not be asking Congress to break up Apple's sensible security controls over its platform, because we fucking like them. Sixth, this issue has absolutely nothing to do with the right to repair.
- echelon 5y ago
  > Every part of this is bullshit. To some Apple fans, employees, and shareholders. Plenty of people agree with me and hate Apple's shitty behavior. Many of them would be happy Apple customers if Apple would knock off the bad behavior (myself included). Unfortunately this issue won't go away by ignoring Apple. It will remain a plague on small developers and the industry as a whole as long as Apple is allowed to continue their anti-competitive, anti-consumer practices. > First, Apple is driving innovation, obviously, not "shitting on it". Areas where they do substantially innovate (M1) are driven by a desire to control the supply chain. Other innovations (AirTags, AirPods, Mac, iPhone) are stale or copies of other innovations. Apple has enough firepower to decimate entire product areas by cloning and integrating them with their ecosystem. Maybe they look and feel superior? That's because Apple is a Death Star of engineering that you can't compete with. Many people feel software companies should not be hardware, platform/distribution, and services combined. Especially at scale. > Second, no, Apple should retain the power it has over how software works on its platform, the vast majority of users emphatically want that, and that is because of the various concrete benefits the approach has. That doesn't mean it's healthy for the world. Apple is the de-facto computer for 50% of Americans, and they impose taxation on all commerce and Baptism for all developers working on the platform. Apple is unilaterally controlling 50% of modern client code execution. That is single handedly the most unhealthy problem with modern computing. > Third, no, Apple did not "get lucky" and "ride" the growth engines in question, especially in the case of the modern smartphone. It created that engine. Patently false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone Apple took the lead at an inflection point. Others were already developing similar devices, but Apple had brand recognition, the iPod ecosystem, and enough polish to pull ahead by a large margin. Steve was a fantastic product person, and Apple had the software and logistics to make an awesome device. But this was a competitive edge, not a Bell Labs moment. > Fourth, your comparison to controlling how people breathe is ludicrous. Not really. Have you had your software denied by Apple? Have you had to use their dev tools? I'm sick of it. I also own dozens of devices for motion capture that I would like to remove from the Apple toolchain entirely. I bought the hardware and don't care about the App Store. > Fifth, no: we will not be asking Congress to break up Apple's sensible security controls over its platform, because we fucking like them. Well, I am and have been asking. I know plenty of others that are too. > Sixth, this issue has absolutely nothing to do with the right to repair. Oh yes it does. It also has to do with the file scanning on your devices where Apple treats you like a child predator / terrorist / whistle blower / state enemy. Apple is the opposite of "too big to fail". It's "too dangerous to let live". It needs to be regulated.