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I use Zoom for the simple reason that it provides end to end encryption and can seamlessly support large (50+) team meetings. Other than WebEx, which is more c

I use Zoom for the simple reason that it provides end to end encryption and can seamlessly support large (50+) team meetings. Other than WebEx, which is more cost-prohibitive and has a clunkier UI/UX to boot, I believe there are no other video conferencing apps that can provide the service I'm looking for (which is 1. E2EE, and 2. support for 50+ attendees). _Is_ there anything else that can provide this, besides Zoom or WebEx?

fartcannon 5y ago
Yes. https://jitsi.org/security/ https://jitsi.org/security/ Plus you can self-host it. So you're only limited by the machine you host it on.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  I've stress tested Jitsi's E2EE (both on the official server and on a self-hosted instance, with was a PITA to setup, by the way) and....it does not scale. After more than 20 clients joined, there were noticeable problems that made the meeting impossible to conduct (audio drop outs, frozen video, disparate lag times, etc), both on a self-hosted instance that had more than enough bandwidth/hardware kit to handle it (the same self-hosted setup is also used to host Zoom, which runs perfectly), and on their main server. I would like to hear real-world examples of people successfully conducting large-scale E2EE meetings over Jitsi. What setup did you use?
swiley 5y ago
E2EE is meaningless with a closed client downloaded by individuals from the service provider.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  If the option is "not use any closed-source E2EE video conferencing platform because of ideological purity" or "conferencing platform which promises E2EE and has SLAs and legal contracts backing these claims with the client", for practical purposes the latter wins.
intel_brain 5y ago
Telegram?
- Ansil849 5y ago
  Telegram does not support E2EE for group chats. It's also not a video conferencing platform.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > It's also not a video conferencing platform. Yes, it is: https://telegram.org/blog/group-video-calls https://telegram.org/blog/group-video-calls.
    - acmj 5y ago
      The parent post said no E2EE for group chat. Telegram doesn't seem to support that according to the linked page. Telegram group video chat only allows up to 30 people for the time being, which is far too limited. Also, group chat is not the same as "conferencing platform".
    - Ansil849 5y ago
      If an app which supports groups video calls counts as a "video conferencing platform" in your book, then you're better off using either Facetime or Signal, both of which support E2EE, unlike Telegram.
rrdharan 5y ago
> it provides end to end encryption (After lying about it for years) https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-... Theranos-level of “fake it til you make it” and they actually did make it…
- Ansil849 5y ago
  > (After lying about it for years) Correct. But currently, as far as is known, they actually do provide it. Which, practically, is what matters because other than WebEx there are no comparable alternatives that I'm aware of.
  - rrdharan 5y ago
    Jitsi: https://jitsi.org/e2ee-in-jitsi/ https://jitsi.org/e2ee-in-jitsi/
    - Ansil849 5y ago
      Jitsi is discussed in the comment below yours in this sub-thread. I have extensively tested Jitsi and it does not do what I need it to do (support E2EE video conferencing for teams larger than 50 people). People recommend Jitsi all the time, but I have yet to see any real-world cases of people actually using E2EE Jitsi meetings for large teams.

fartcannon 5y ago

Yes. https://jitsi.org/security/ https://jitsi.org/security/ Plus you can self-host it. So you're only limited by the machine you host it on.

Ansil849 5y ago
I've stress tested Jitsi's E2EE (both on the official server and on a self-hosted instance, with was a PITA to setup, by the way) and....it does not scale. After more than 20 clients joined, there were noticeable problems that made the meeting impossible to conduct (audio drop outs, frozen video, disparate lag times, etc), both on a self-hosted instance that had more than enough bandwidth/hardware kit to handle it (the same self-hosted setup is also used to host Zoom, which runs perfectly), and on their main server. I would like to hear real-world examples of people successfully conducting large-scale E2EE meetings over Jitsi. What setup did you use?

swiley 5y ago

E2EE is meaningless with a closed client downloaded by individuals from the service provider.

Ansil849 5y ago
If the option is "not use any closed-source E2EE video conferencing platform because of ideological purity" or "conferencing platform which promises E2EE and has SLAs and legal contracts backing these claims with the client", for practical purposes the latter wins.

intel_brain 5y ago

Telegram?

Ansil849 5y ago
Telegram does not support E2EE for group chats. It's also not a video conferencing platform.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > It's also not a video conferencing platform. Yes, it is: https://telegram.org/blog/group-video-calls https://telegram.org/blog/group-video-calls.
  - acmj 5y ago
    The parent post said no E2EE for group chat. Telegram doesn't seem to support that according to the linked page. Telegram group video chat only allows up to 30 people for the time being, which is far too limited. Also, group chat is not the same as "conferencing platform".
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    If an app which supports groups video calls counts as a "video conferencing platform" in your book, then you're better off using either Facetime or Signal, both of which support E2EE, unlike Telegram.

rrdharan 5y ago

> it provides end to end encryption (After lying about it for years) https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-... Theranos-level of “fake it til you make it” and they actually did make it…

Ansil849 5y ago
> (After lying about it for years) Correct. But currently, as far as is known, they actually do provide it. Which, practically, is what matters because other than WebEx there are no comparable alternatives that I'm aware of.
- rrdharan 5y ago
  Jitsi: https://jitsi.org/e2ee-in-jitsi/ https://jitsi.org/e2ee-in-jitsi/
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    Jitsi is discussed in the comment below yours in this sub-thread. I have extensively tested Jitsi and it does not do what I need it to do (support E2EE video conferencing for teams larger than 50 people). People recommend Jitsi all the time, but I have yet to see any real-world cases of people actually using E2EE Jitsi meetings for large teams.