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There clearly is more to this story as there are a number of keyboard apps. > Apple says the keyboard needs to work even if a user doesn’t give it “full access

There clearly is more to this story as there are a number of keyboard apps. > Apple says the keyboard needs to work even if a user doesn’t give it “full access” to network access and other iOS features Having a keyboard app with any sort of network access is a red flag as it would make it the easiest way to secretly build a keystroke logger.

jjcon 5y ago
FlickType doesn't require full access though?
- user-the-name 5y ago
  But it does ask for it. Which, again, is a red flag and I as a user definitely want Apple to be erring on the side of caution before approving an app like that.
  - jjcon 5y ago
    There is no rule against asking for network access - tons of keyboards do to serve things like gifs from gify etc (including gboard and the apple keyboard)
- Gualdrapo 5y ago
  The screenshot Apple sent them says it asks the user for full access, though dev says the app would work only if they don't - just giving voiceover permissions. Which makes me think the internet access can be used for some internet search gateway or something
detaro 5y ago
Literally the next sentence: > But Eleftheriou says that if Apple actually tried to use the app, or consulted their earlier discussions, they’d see that the keyboard works.
- threeseed 5y ago
  Which makes me even more suspicious as they are trying to shift the argument. No one is claiming that the app doesn't work. Only that it needs unusual permissions.
  - detaro 5y ago
    > No one is claiming that the app doesn't work. Only that it needs unusual permissions. It "not working" without full access is literally the reason Apple gave for the rejection, so yes, Apple is very much claiming the app isn't working.
  - harpiaharpyja 5y ago
    No, the whole issue is that Apple is claiming that the app does not work.
user-the-name 5y ago
The developer has clearly made a choice here to build something that looks incredibly suspicious. Having made that choice it is a bit rich to be complaining that app review is giving them trouble.
- yoz-y 5y ago
  It’s not in the least suspicious. The full access mode was put there by Apple in the first place and most keyboards do use it. They still kind of halfway work without it but usually in a very restricted manner.
  - JKCalhoun 5y ago
    Consider my old age: a keyboard to me was plastic and had rows of plastic keys across it. If someone tells me the keyboard needs "network access" I'm going to have to get up out of my rocking chair and ask, "Why for?" I guess I am naturally suspicious about such things.
    - yoz-y 5y ago
      From user perspective it’s a different thing. However Apple should know better. If they wish to reject apps because they use APIs they have provided, they should have not made those APIs in the first place.
      - user-the-name 5y ago
        They did not reject the app for using an API they have provided.
        yoz-y 5y ago
        They rejected it for (allegedly) requiring it. Apple’s obsession with “all apps must work for everybody” is losing them potentially original or deep apps. The same goes for example for the rule than any iOS game must be playable without a controller. I get the idea that you don’t want people to download programs they can’t use, but I think a better solution would be to update the App Store to better communicate the requirements and make the refunds easier.
wfleming 5y ago
FlickType disputes this in the original Twitter thread that made it to the front page yesterday (https://twitter.com/FlickType/status/1427292830523744257 https://twitter.com/FlickType/status/1427292830523744257 on Twitter, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28200288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28200288 on HN). They originally dealt with a rejection for that reason several years ago, and managed to clear it up with Apple because they feel they don't require full access. (Although the Verge article says if you don't have full access you need to use VoiceOver, which doesn't make sense to me, but I've never used the keyboard and given the very accessibility-specific purpose of the app maybe that makes sense?) So in general I agree that using "full access" should require, say, closer review. But in this case, they've been closely reviewed & approved over the same issue in the past, and FlickType says the keyboard continues to work when full access is off, as it should. Pretty much no matter how you cut it, in the absolute best-for-Apple interpretation here, Apple is still doing a pretty awful job of explaining their review criteria or enforcing them consistently.
deleted 5y ago
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jjcon 5y ago

FlickType doesn't require full access though?

user-the-name 5y ago
But it does ask for it. Which, again, is a red flag and I as a user definitely want Apple to be erring on the side of caution before approving an app like that.
- jjcon 5y ago
  There is no rule against asking for network access - tons of keyboards do to serve things like gifs from gify etc (including gboard and the apple keyboard)
Gualdrapo 5y ago
The screenshot Apple sent them says it asks the user for full access, though dev says the app would work only if they don't - just giving voiceover permissions. Which makes me think the internet access can be used for some internet search gateway or something

detaro 5y ago

Literally the next sentence: > But Eleftheriou says that if Apple actually tried to use the app, or consulted their earlier discussions, they’d see that the keyboard works.

threeseed 5y ago
Which makes me even more suspicious as they are trying to shift the argument. No one is claiming that the app doesn't work. Only that it needs unusual permissions.
- detaro 5y ago
  > No one is claiming that the app doesn't work. Only that it needs unusual permissions. It "not working" without full access is literally the reason Apple gave for the rejection, so yes, Apple is very much claiming the app isn't working.
- harpiaharpyja 5y ago
  No, the whole issue is that Apple is claiming that the app does not work.

user-the-name 5y ago

The developer has clearly made a choice here to build something that looks incredibly suspicious. Having made that choice it is a bit rich to be complaining that app review is giving them trouble.

yoz-y 5y ago
It’s not in the least suspicious. The full access mode was put there by Apple in the first place and most keyboards do use it. They still kind of halfway work without it but usually in a very restricted manner.
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  Consider my old age: a keyboard to me was plastic and had rows of plastic keys across it. If someone tells me the keyboard needs "network access" I'm going to have to get up out of my rocking chair and ask, "Why for?" I guess I am naturally suspicious about such things.
  - yoz-y 5y ago
    From user perspective it’s a different thing. However Apple should know better. If they wish to reject apps because they use APIs they have provided, they should have not made those APIs in the first place.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      They did not reject the app for using an API they have provided.
      - yoz-y 5y ago
        They rejected it for (allegedly) requiring it. Apple’s obsession with “all apps must work for everybody” is losing them potentially original or deep apps. The same goes for example for the rule than any iOS game must be playable without a controller. I get the idea that you don’t want people to download programs they can’t use, but I think a better solution would be to update the App Store to better communicate the requirements and make the refunds easier.

wfleming 5y ago

FlickType disputes this in the original Twitter thread that made it to the front page yesterday (https://twitter.com/FlickType/status/1427292830523744257 https://twitter.com/FlickType/status/1427292830523744257 on Twitter, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28200288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28200288 on HN). They originally dealt with a rejection for that reason several years ago, and managed to clear it up with Apple because they feel they don't require full access. (Although the Verge article says if you don't have full access you need to use VoiceOver, which doesn't make sense to me, but I've never used the keyboard and given the very accessibility-specific purpose of the app maybe that makes sense?) So in general I agree that using "full access" should require, say, closer review. But in this case, they've been closely reviewed & approved over the same issue in the past, and FlickType says the keyboard continues to work when full access is off, as it should. Pretty much no matter how you cut it, in the absolute best-for-Apple interpretation here, Apple is still doing a pretty awful job of explaining their review criteria or enforcing them consistently.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]