8 ms·

(some strains of) HPV already have vaccines, social conservatism is what is allowing much of cervical cancer to continue in the rich world.

portpecos 5y ago
Right, blame it on social conservatism when the HPV vaccine costs $1000 even if you have Medicaid or ACA. In fact, Medicaid and ACA don’t even cover it. The cheapest price for the HPV vaccine in rural America is at the nearby Walmart. But it is $330 per shot, and you have to take 3 shots, and Medicaid and ACA won’t even cover it. If you’re blaming social conservatism, then I’m calling you out for an out-of-touch liberal.
- bananapub 5y ago
  what are you talking about? Australia negotiated some deal with the manufacturer and immunises every child and found it to be a great deal: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0223658 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... I don't know or care about the US's inability to negotiate drug prices or unwillingness to fund useful programs - which is a choice. > I’m calling you out for an out-of-touch liberal. lol this site is amazing sometimes. people have the knowledge of the world available at their fingertips, can read the experiences of people from all around the world and still end up making some strongly worded reply about how the important thing is how much you can buy an HPV vaccine at a discount retail chain in the countryside after a country failed to work towards an obvious public good? what a time to be alive.
  - s5300 5y ago
    >>this site is amazing sometimes. people have the knowledge of the world available at their fingertips, can read the experiences of people from all around the world and still end up making some strongly worded reply about how the important thing is how much you can buy an HPV vaccine at a discount retail chain in the countryside after a country failed to work towards an obvious public good? what a time to be alive. Their typical reply to this is that all of that information is fake subterfuge by Big Tech^tm It's just like... damn dude. What went wrong in these people's lives to make them so stupid and angry at data/information
- davidjade 5y ago
  How about we let the US government fund or negotiate a better price for health services instead of hoping that the free market will solve everything? Seems like everyone should have free access to something that has such great benefits to society. I know that’s where I want my tax dollars to go.
  - standapart 5y ago
    There hasn't been a free market in health care in the US for decades-- thankfully though, the pig has kept it's lipstick and we give you the illusion of choice. Hopefully, in the next few years, we can just do away with this facade. It may not be worth trumpeting this as an achievement, though. Just go ask any doc what they think of CMS.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      There's no platonic 'free' market anywhere on earth, and I'm not sure there ever has been. Each society is a collection of socialized and privatized services. America has socialized fire departments, police departments, regulators, courts, health care for the poorest and old, army, passenger rail, mail delivery etc. Some services are better provided collectively (schools, prisons, healthcare) and some are better provided by the private markets (Apple). The former strengthens the latter. At the end of the day even the 'socialized medicine' debate isn't such a big decision. It's just about extending socialized medicine in the US from 40% of the population (today covered by Medicare and Medicaid) to 100%. It's clearly better of course - as John Oliver expressed 'there's a right way and a wrong way to do healthcare and we do it the wrong way'. But it is, on the spectrum of absolute socialism to absolute capitalism, a small tweak.
- khuey 5y ago
  Gardasil is covered for essentially all children and most adults 26 or under. After that it's a bit more tricky but a lot of plans still covered it.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  The HPV vaccine is available to all children regardless of ability to pay. https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/the-hpv-vaccine-access-and-use-in-the-u-s/ https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/the-hpv-... The ACA also dramatically increased access to it: https://publichealth.uga.edu/hpv-vaccination-rates-increased-post-affordable-care-act-implementation/ https://publichealth.uga.edu/hpv-vaccination-rates-increased... > The results showed that participants post-ACA were 3.3 times more likely to get the HPV vaccine, and more people reported completing the full series of vaccinations. Conservative opposition to it isn't hard to find: https://www.christianpost.com/news/conservatives-raise-red-flag-on-mandatory-hpv-vaccine-for-girls-26520/ https://www.christianpost.com/news/conservatives-raise-red-f...
  - portpecos 5y ago
    Here’s the phone number for Walmart in Lansing Michigan. Tell me if you get a different price. You probably won’t. 517 622 1451. In fact, I’ll do the legwork for you and report to you exactly what they say. I’ll be right back. Update: I was wrong! Massive price deduction. It will cost me only $567 for 3 shots total!! That’s such a small amount of money for rural America right? An entire month’s small apartment rent for a vaccine. And Medicaid and ACA still don’t cover it.
    - mattkrause 5y ago
      Right...because another program covers it instead: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/hpv/hcp/payment.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/hpv/hcp/payment.html Click through to the FAQ to see a) a list of covered vaccines AND b) the statement that they're free of cost for "Medicaid-eligible" kids.
      - SamReidHughes 5y ago
        Somebody is still paying for it.
        ceejayoz 5y ago
- deanCommie 5y ago
  Social conservatives tried to KILL the ACA over and over again. Social Conservatism is what causes medications to not be subsidized. Social Conservatism is what keeps America the only developed nation without universal healthcare.
  - CrazyPyroLinux 5y ago
    Mr. Commie, this is your daily reminder that Communism has killed more people than anything else.
    - owisd 5y ago
      Makes you wonder how all those western democracies with socialised healthcare still manage to have a longer life expectancy than the US with all the executions for subversion.
      - mensetmanusman 5y ago
        Less sugar consumption.
      - CrazyPyroLinux 5y ago
        In case you missed the context, the parent poster (who was not downvoted BTW) literally has "commie" in their username, and wants to blame everything on "Social Conservatism." The problem with crony capitalism is the crony, not the capitalism. Socialized healthcare is not the panacea that some people seem to think. And the ACA in the US isn't really either - more the like the worst of both worlds.
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        > literally has "commie" in their username Are we to assume you're an actual Linux distribution having reached sentience from your username, or can we assume it's just a moniker selected for some other reason?
slumdev 5y ago
The people who oppose that vaccine value ethical behavior more than they value specific health outcomes.
- txru 5y ago
  Ethics is by definition subjective. You should define why your subjective ethical good should override the real good of much less cancer.
  - slumdev 5y ago
    "Can't stop my kid from sleeping around, but at least he/she won't get cancer", and harm reduction efforts, in general, are consequentialist. Some academics devote their entire lives to the development of moral theories, and the majority of them aren't consequentialist. There are other ways to reason about decision making. These efforts don't work, anyway. Thanks to the sexual "revolution" and promiscuity being viewed as morally neutral (if not positive) in today's world, we now have multi-drug-resistant strains of gonorrhea, syphilis, and chlamydia. No doubt, if we develop leaky vaccines against common STDs, we'll just end up breeding vaccine-resistant strains of them.
    - cassepipe 5y ago
      Believe it or not but for some of us making love with different people is part of what makes life worth being lived. But why do you care? You are not "sleeping around" or, are you? Btw, ever heard of condoms?
      - slumdev 5y ago
        Previous partner count correlates with likelihood of divorce. People who sleep around are damaged goods, both physiologically and psychologically.
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        > Previous partner count correlates with likelihood of divorce. Neat! People have a better baseline for what's acceptable in a relationship, and don't settle for "at least they're not beating me" out of ignorance.
classichasclass 5y ago
Although true to a certain extent, it doesn't mean minds can't be changed, just as it is for any other population's negative perception of any vaccine. In my own church I've had this discussion with parents, and I know of at least one who changed their position on HPV vaccination. I credit them with giving the matter thought.
himinlomax 5y ago
Religion is a non issue outside of the US. The fundamentalist view on that issue would not just be laughed out of the room in Europe, it would result in aggressive reactions. The main hurdle is vaccine hesitancy, fueled by new age nonsense.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  What about the middle east or Africa or South America?
  - himinlomax 5y ago
    He said "rich."
ltbarcly3 5y ago
There was a lot of hoopla at the time the vaccine was announced, but other than that I'm not sure where you are getting your information? HPV vaccination rates are increasing, and there is almost no resistance at this point. The US vaccination rates are in line with Europe.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
hobofan 5y ago
Not sure exactly what you mean with social conservatism, but I'd rather call out misplaced optimism. In the past the approch was to only target young girls before they had sex for the first time, which turned out to not reduce the spread of HPV as much as hoped. Only in recent years the recommendation changed to also vaccinate boys and increasingly also people with previous sexual encounters.
- gibrown 5y ago
  > Not sure exactly what you mean with social conservatism "This is also why social conservatives don't like it when scientific progress makes sex safer or better. Sex outside of their ideal scenario (in marriage, at the husband's wish, for reproduction) should be punished, and steps to mitigate that punishment (STD prevention, pregnancy prevention) should be discouraged or lambasted as immoral." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/16/conservatives-hpv-vaccine-dilemma https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/16/conser... https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/why-the-politics-of-hpv-are-so-muddled/2011/09/16/gIQAffsZaK_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/why-the-pol...
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Same with the ones that destroy your liver.
dang 5y ago
Please don't take HN threads into ideological flamewar. It's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28211023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28211023.

portpecos 5y ago

Right, blame it on social conservatism when the HPV vaccine costs $1000 even if you have Medicaid or ACA. In fact, Medicaid and ACA don’t even cover it. The cheapest price for the HPV vaccine in rural America is at the nearby Walmart. But it is $330 per shot, and you have to take 3 shots, and Medicaid and ACA won’t even cover it. If you’re blaming social conservatism, then I’m calling you out for an out-of-touch liberal.

bananapub 5y ago
what are you talking about? Australia negotiated some deal with the manufacturer and immunises every child and found it to be a great deal: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0223658 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... I don't know or care about the US's inability to negotiate drug prices or unwillingness to fund useful programs - which is a choice. > I’m calling you out for an out-of-touch liberal. lol this site is amazing sometimes. people have the knowledge of the world available at their fingertips, can read the experiences of people from all around the world and still end up making some strongly worded reply about how the important thing is how much you can buy an HPV vaccine at a discount retail chain in the countryside after a country failed to work towards an obvious public good? what a time to be alive.
- s5300 5y ago
  >>this site is amazing sometimes. people have the knowledge of the world available at their fingertips, can read the experiences of people from all around the world and still end up making some strongly worded reply about how the important thing is how much you can buy an HPV vaccine at a discount retail chain in the countryside after a country failed to work towards an obvious public good? what a time to be alive. Their typical reply to this is that all of that information is fake subterfuge by Big Tech^tm It's just like... damn dude. What went wrong in these people's lives to make them so stupid and angry at data/information
davidjade 5y ago
How about we let the US government fund or negotiate a better price for health services instead of hoping that the free market will solve everything? Seems like everyone should have free access to something that has such great benefits to society. I know that’s where I want my tax dollars to go.
- standapart 5y ago
  There hasn't been a free market in health care in the US for decades-- thankfully though, the pig has kept it's lipstick and we give you the illusion of choice. Hopefully, in the next few years, we can just do away with this facade. It may not be worth trumpeting this as an achievement, though. Just go ask any doc what they think of CMS.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    There's no platonic 'free' market anywhere on earth, and I'm not sure there ever has been. Each society is a collection of socialized and privatized services. America has socialized fire departments, police departments, regulators, courts, health care for the poorest and old, army, passenger rail, mail delivery etc. Some services are better provided collectively (schools, prisons, healthcare) and some are better provided by the private markets (Apple). The former strengthens the latter. At the end of the day even the 'socialized medicine' debate isn't such a big decision. It's just about extending socialized medicine in the US from 40% of the population (today covered by Medicare and Medicaid) to 100%. It's clearly better of course - as John Oliver expressed 'there's a right way and a wrong way to do healthcare and we do it the wrong way'. But it is, on the spectrum of absolute socialism to absolute capitalism, a small tweak.
khuey 5y ago
Gardasil is covered for essentially all children and most adults 26 or under. After that it's a bit more tricky but a lot of plans still covered it.
ceejayoz 5y ago
The HPV vaccine is available to all children regardless of ability to pay. https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/the-hpv-vaccine-access-and-use-in-the-u-s/ https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/the-hpv-... The ACA also dramatically increased access to it: https://publichealth.uga.edu/hpv-vaccination-rates-increased-post-affordable-care-act-implementation/ https://publichealth.uga.edu/hpv-vaccination-rates-increased... > The results showed that participants post-ACA were 3.3 times more likely to get the HPV vaccine, and more people reported completing the full series of vaccinations. Conservative opposition to it isn't hard to find: https://www.christianpost.com/news/conservatives-raise-red-flag-on-mandatory-hpv-vaccine-for-girls-26520/ https://www.christianpost.com/news/conservatives-raise-red-f...
- portpecos 5y ago
  Here’s the phone number for Walmart in Lansing Michigan. Tell me if you get a different price. You probably won’t. 517 622 1451. In fact, I’ll do the legwork for you and report to you exactly what they say. I’ll be right back. Update: I was wrong! Massive price deduction. It will cost me only $567 for 3 shots total!! That’s such a small amount of money for rural America right? An entire month’s small apartment rent for a vaccine. And Medicaid and ACA still don’t cover it.
  - mattkrause 5y ago
    Right...because another program covers it instead: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/hpv/hcp/payment.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/hpv/hcp/payment.html Click through to the FAQ to see a) a list of covered vaccines AND b) the statement that they're free of cost for "Medicaid-eligible" kids.
    - SamReidHughes 5y ago
      Somebody is still paying for it.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
deanCommie 5y ago
Social conservatives tried to KILL the ACA over and over again. Social Conservatism is what causes medications to not be subsidized. Social Conservatism is what keeps America the only developed nation without universal healthcare.
- CrazyPyroLinux 5y ago
  Mr. Commie, this is your daily reminder that Communism has killed more people than anything else.
  - owisd 5y ago
    Makes you wonder how all those western democracies with socialised healthcare still manage to have a longer life expectancy than the US with all the executions for subversion.
    - mensetmanusman 5y ago
      Less sugar consumption.
    - CrazyPyroLinux 5y ago
      In case you missed the context, the parent poster (who was not downvoted BTW) literally has "commie" in their username, and wants to blame everything on "Social Conservatism." The problem with crony capitalism is the crony, not the capitalism. Socialized healthcare is not the panacea that some people seem to think. And the ACA in the US isn't really either - more the like the worst of both worlds.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        > literally has "commie" in their username Are we to assume you're an actual Linux distribution having reached sentience from your username, or can we assume it's just a moniker selected for some other reason?

slumdev 5y ago

The people who oppose that vaccine value ethical behavior more than they value specific health outcomes.

txru 5y ago
Ethics is by definition subjective. You should define why your subjective ethical good should override the real good of much less cancer.
- slumdev 5y ago
  "Can't stop my kid from sleeping around, but at least he/she won't get cancer", and harm reduction efforts, in general, are consequentialist. Some academics devote their entire lives to the development of moral theories, and the majority of them aren't consequentialist. There are other ways to reason about decision making. These efforts don't work, anyway. Thanks to the sexual "revolution" and promiscuity being viewed as morally neutral (if not positive) in today's world, we now have multi-drug-resistant strains of gonorrhea, syphilis, and chlamydia. No doubt, if we develop leaky vaccines against common STDs, we'll just end up breeding vaccine-resistant strains of them.
  - cassepipe 5y ago
    Believe it or not but for some of us making love with different people is part of what makes life worth being lived. But why do you care? You are not "sleeping around" or, are you? Btw, ever heard of condoms?
    - slumdev 5y ago
      Previous partner count correlates with likelihood of divorce. People who sleep around are damaged goods, both physiologically and psychologically.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        > Previous partner count correlates with likelihood of divorce. Neat! People have a better baseline for what's acceptable in a relationship, and don't settle for "at least they're not beating me" out of ignorance.

classichasclass 5y ago

Although true to a certain extent, it doesn't mean minds can't be changed, just as it is for any other population's negative perception of any vaccine. In my own church I've had this discussion with parents, and I know of at least one who changed their position on HPV vaccination. I credit them with giving the matter thought.

himinlomax 5y ago

Religion is a non issue outside of the US. The fundamentalist view on that issue would not just be laughed out of the room in Europe, it would result in aggressive reactions. The main hurdle is vaccine hesitancy, fueled by new age nonsense.

ipaddr 5y ago
What about the middle east or Africa or South America?
- himinlomax 5y ago
  He said "rich."

ltbarcly3 5y ago

There was a lot of hoopla at the time the vaccine was announced, but other than that I'm not sure where you are getting your information? HPV vaccination rates are increasing, and there is almost no resistance at this point. The US vaccination rates are in line with Europe.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

hobofan 5y ago

Not sure exactly what you mean with social conservatism, but I'd rather call out misplaced optimism. In the past the approch was to only target young girls before they had sex for the first time, which turned out to not reduce the spread of HPV as much as hoped. Only in recent years the recommendation changed to also vaccinate boys and increasingly also people with previous sexual encounters.

gibrown 5y ago
> Not sure exactly what you mean with social conservatism "This is also why social conservatives don't like it when scientific progress makes sex safer or better. Sex outside of their ideal scenario (in marriage, at the husband's wish, for reproduction) should be punished, and steps to mitigate that punishment (STD prevention, pregnancy prevention) should be discouraged or lambasted as immoral." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/16/conservatives-hpv-vaccine-dilemma https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/16/conser... https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/why-the-politics-of-hpv-are-so-muddled/2011/09/16/gIQAffsZaK_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/why-the-pol...

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Same with the ones that destroy your liver.

dang 5y ago

Please don't take HN threads into ideological flamewar. It's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28211023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28211023.