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There are other battery types such as sodium, liquid air, liquid metal, air-metal and so on. Doing everything with lithium is not a great idea as we need that

by nickik 5y ago

There are other battery types such as sodium, liquid air, liquid metal, air-metal and so on. Doing everything with lithium is not a great idea as we need that for cars mostly. But I also always preferred nuclear.

foxyv 5y ago
For sure! For sure! I imagine if we're lucky we could get a grid scale chemical energy storage solution in the next 10 to 20 years that will make lithium seem like a waste of money. I was mostly curious as to how viable these grid scale batteries are materials wise right now. Currently, lithium batteries are the only storage medium that is efficient enough (~90%) to allow photovoltaic solar to compete with nuclear and fossil fuels. Pumped water storage is okay at 80%. Molten sodium on those cool solar thermal generators in the desert is pretty good since they don't add a step to the generation process. Liquid air is 50% efficient when used with heat exchangers, molten salt plants are at about 70%, and gravity is about 90%. Gravity is efficient but supremely low density requiring huge installations for even a few megawatt hours. As panels get cheaper and more efficient, these storage mediums will become cost effective, but for now are relegated to neat research projects and demonstrations. I imagine that molten salt will end up being our goto in 15 years or so if nothing cool like metal air batteries comes out before then. Right now it seems lithium installations are only at a scale for grid stabilization when paired with natural gas peakers. However I can see that changing a lot as power prices go up from carbon credits and we start manufacturing more cells. But yeah, I prefer nuclear too. We can do nuclear now. Modern designs are just waiting to be built and tested. Ones that can also do peaking like the natrium reactor. What's more, they will allow us to grow our industry at the same time without adding more carbon to our atmosphere.
- lovemenot 5y ago
  I feel you undersold pumped hydro. This proven technology is cheap, efficient and at scale. If any grid needs energy storage and has suitable undeveloped sites available, they'd be foolish to consider any other alternative you mentioned. The significant issue with ph is site availability.

by nickik 5y ago

foxyv 5y ago

For sure! For sure! I imagine if we're lucky we could get a grid scale chemical energy storage solution in the next 10 to 20 years that will make lithium seem like a waste of money. I was mostly curious as to how viable these grid scale batteries are materials wise right now. Currently, lithium batteries are the only storage medium that is efficient enough (~90%) to allow photovoltaic solar to compete with nuclear and fossil fuels. Pumped water storage is okay at 80%. Molten sodium on those cool solar thermal generators in the desert is pretty good since they don't add a step to the generation process. Liquid air is 50% efficient when used with heat exchangers, molten salt plants are at about 70%, and gravity is about 90%. Gravity is efficient but supremely low density requiring huge installations for even a few megawatt hours. As panels get cheaper and more efficient, these storage mediums will become cost effective, but for now are relegated to neat research projects and demonstrations. I imagine that molten salt will end up being our goto in 15 years or so if nothing cool like metal air batteries comes out before then. Right now it seems lithium installations are only at a scale for grid stabilization when paired with natural gas peakers. However I can see that changing a lot as power prices go up from carbon credits and we start manufacturing more cells. But yeah, I prefer nuclear too. We can do nuclear now. Modern designs are just waiting to be built and tested. Ones that can also do peaking like the natrium reactor. What's more, they will allow us to grow our industry at the same time without adding more carbon to our atmosphere.

lovemenot 5y ago
I feel you undersold pumped hydro. This proven technology is cheap, efficient and at scale. If any grid needs energy storage and has suitable undeveloped sites available, they'd be foolish to consider any other alternative you mentioned. The significant issue with ph is site availability.