8 ms·

>The scientific consensus today is what is stated in the linked wikipedia article. Simply saying this doesn't make it true. This is not true and that Wikipedia

by akyu 5y ago

>The scientific consensus today is what is stated in the linked wikipedia article. Simply saying this doesn't make it true. This is not true and that Wikipedia article is outdated.

yodsanklai 5y ago
Just like saying it's not true doesn't make it untrue. Which is why I'd encourage everybody to do their own research, and at least know that there are a lot of controversies around this topic.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  Please do YOUR research and read the paper that went thru peer review and was published. once YOU read that paper, please post YOUR peer review summary here. enough with appeals to authority. wikipedia is not even an authoritative source to begin with.
  - freshpots 5y ago
    Are you also a big fan of the scam Dr. Sponaugle and the multitude of forums about chronic Lyme, and consider those charlatans scammers the truth? https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7jk9q/rick-sponaugle-pots-chronic-lyme-sponaugle-wellness-center https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7jk9q/rick-sponaugle-pots-c... Edit: Is Lyme-literate another term you and your internet friends use? Look at the case against him: https://mqa-internet.doh.state.fl.us/MQASearchServices/HealthCareProviders/LicenseVerification?LicInd=37362&ProCde=1501 https://mqa-internet.doh.state.fl.us/MQASearchServices/Healt... Scam Dr's like this are causing the FUD you are spreading.
    - inter_netuser 5y ago
      Take a look here: https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/628045/fneur-12-628045-HTML/image_m/fneur-12-628045-g007.jpg https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/628045/fneur-12-6... These are spirochetes in the brain/spine of a dead patient. She had proven lyme diagnosis in the past, has been given the standard treatment and had good response(!), only to relapse, never recover and went on to develop neurological issues years later, and died. The brain was donated and autopsied. Full study: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.628045/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.6280... Are you saying the lead scientist on this paper, from the Tulane National Primate Research Center is a scammer? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulane_National_Primate_Research_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulane_National_Primate_Resear...) Seems like a big accusation.
      - DetroitThrow 5y ago
        I had recently read a paper by a professor in Stanford Psychiatry that made very exaggerated claims that would go on to not be replicated to the degree originally made, which I had expected as the treatment used was not a major improvement on the existing methods and that researchers from even prestigious universities might be incentivized to not investigate or report the full truth if they might benefit from it in some way. While it's interesting that the treatment was "successful" and that symptoms continued, this isn't really a strong statement of support for something like Chronic Lyme Disease or at least its widespread presentation - much more likely a statement of support for Lyme Disease bacteria not always being treated by the regimen, or potentially even that it's easy for someone to get a second infection and have no significant immunity.
giantg2 5y ago
I think even the article makes a mention that there is not scientific consensus on many aspects of Lyme disease. It seems it is one of many topics that have studies that may contradict other studies, or explore additional angles.
- DetroitThrow 5y ago
  The article seems to indicate that consensus does not support Chronic Lyme Disease, instead preferring Post Treatment Lyme Disease as a pathology (which doesn't seem unlikely if the disease causes nervous system damage). It also mentions reinfection has been recorded. I'm only really seeing one data point being posted to counter that idea, and that doesn't seem to exclude the reinfection scenario. I guess the hope for promoters of CLD would be that it's possible to treat the currently irreversible PTLD symptoms using antibiotics, rather than accept something akin to a fibromyalgia diagnosis.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Ah, I didn't see that this was strictly a comment about chronic Lyme. It seems pretty well settled, but that single conflicting case does leave the door open for further study, even if only to determine how a fluke happened.

by akyu 5y ago

>The scientific consensus today is what is stated in the linked wikipedia article. Simply saying this doesn't make it true. This is not true and that Wikipedia article is outdated.

yodsanklai 5y ago

Just like saying it's not true doesn't make it untrue. Which is why I'd encourage everybody to do their own research, and at least know that there are a lot of controversies around this topic.

inter_netuser 5y ago
Please do YOUR research and read the paper that went thru peer review and was published. once YOU read that paper, please post YOUR peer review summary here. enough with appeals to authority. wikipedia is not even an authoritative source to begin with.
- freshpots 5y ago
  Are you also a big fan of the scam Dr. Sponaugle and the multitude of forums about chronic Lyme, and consider those charlatans scammers the truth? https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7jk9q/rick-sponaugle-pots-chronic-lyme-sponaugle-wellness-center https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7jk9q/rick-sponaugle-pots-c... Edit: Is Lyme-literate another term you and your internet friends use? Look at the case against him: https://mqa-internet.doh.state.fl.us/MQASearchServices/HealthCareProviders/LicenseVerification?LicInd=37362&ProCde=1501 https://mqa-internet.doh.state.fl.us/MQASearchServices/Healt... Scam Dr's like this are causing the FUD you are spreading.
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    Take a look here: https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/628045/fneur-12-628045-HTML/image_m/fneur-12-628045-g007.jpg https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/628045/fneur-12-6... These are spirochetes in the brain/spine of a dead patient. She had proven lyme diagnosis in the past, has been given the standard treatment and had good response(!), only to relapse, never recover and went on to develop neurological issues years later, and died. The brain was donated and autopsied. Full study: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.628045/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.6280... Are you saying the lead scientist on this paper, from the Tulane National Primate Research Center is a scammer? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulane_National_Primate_Research_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulane_National_Primate_Resear...) Seems like a big accusation.
    - DetroitThrow 5y ago
      I had recently read a paper by a professor in Stanford Psychiatry that made very exaggerated claims that would go on to not be replicated to the degree originally made, which I had expected as the treatment used was not a major improvement on the existing methods and that researchers from even prestigious universities might be incentivized to not investigate or report the full truth if they might benefit from it in some way. While it's interesting that the treatment was "successful" and that symptoms continued, this isn't really a strong statement of support for something like Chronic Lyme Disease or at least its widespread presentation - much more likely a statement of support for Lyme Disease bacteria not always being treated by the regimen, or potentially even that it's easy for someone to get a second infection and have no significant immunity.

giantg2 5y ago

I think even the article makes a mention that there is not scientific consensus on many aspects of Lyme disease. It seems it is one of many topics that have studies that may contradict other studies, or explore additional angles.

DetroitThrow 5y ago
The article seems to indicate that consensus does not support Chronic Lyme Disease, instead preferring Post Treatment Lyme Disease as a pathology (which doesn't seem unlikely if the disease causes nervous system damage). It also mentions reinfection has been recorded. I'm only really seeing one data point being posted to counter that idea, and that doesn't seem to exclude the reinfection scenario. I guess the hope for promoters of CLD would be that it's possible to treat the currently irreversible PTLD symptoms using antibiotics, rather than accept something akin to a fibromyalgia diagnosis.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Ah, I didn't see that this was strictly a comment about chronic Lyme. It seems pretty well settled, but that single conflicting case does leave the door open for further study, even if only to determine how a fluke happened.