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Not necessarily. Urban/suburban spaces today are dominated by parking lots and four-to-six-lane roads. Eliminating those would make cities more compact withou

Not necessarily. Urban/suburban spaces today are dominated by parking lots and four-to-six-lane roads. Eliminating those would make cities more compact without sacrificing size. With everything closer together, you wouldn't need the parking spaces in the first place! Of course, I also don't think it would be a bad thing to stop building McMansions. Many consider Tokyo to be an extreme example of density, but even there it is quite common to find 80-160sqm detached houses. At half of Tokyo's density, people wouldn't even need to give up their yards.

formerly_proven 5y ago
People still commute an hour or more (using a lot of public transport) in large-ish European cities because there simply isn't enough housing in the cities (and through some kind of bacterial growth law, there will never be enough in the city) and what is there is of course extremely expensive. Naturally many people live in suburbian-ish things.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  This. I live and work in Paris proper, which is a very dense city. Transit sucks, my commute is around 45 minutes each way. Bonus points for when I have to take it in rush hour, with people pressed together and no air conditioning. Extra bonus points for the habitual breakdowns, meaning even more people per train. Also, high density with "historic city" means very small apartments and very high prices. I really don't know how much better this is compared to US-style suburbia. Oh, we don't have clean air either, all the highways and city roads are congested, too.
  - benrbray 5y ago
    This is just poor planning, no? I never said it's not possible to design cities badly. Look to Tokyo for an example of density and transit working really well.
    - vladvasiliu 5y ago
      True, but I think that more importantly it shows that it's not "easy", since cities that work well seem to be in the minority. Plus, I'd say European cities, in particular, aren't really "designed", seeing how they have to contend with historic centers they can't touch, etc. But I think that, more importantly, we should try to avoid having to be all in the same spot if it's not necessary. Yes, there are some advantages to scale, and some things are easier / cheaper to do when you have 1M people in the same space as opposed to spread far and wide. But this also produces other issues, such as stressed people because of all the noise (not just cars, but neighbors, etc.)

formerly_proven 5y ago

People still commute an hour or more (using a lot of public transport) in large-ish European cities because there simply isn't enough housing in the cities (and through some kind of bacterial growth law, there will never be enough in the city) and what is there is of course extremely expensive. Naturally many people live in suburbian-ish things.

vladvasiliu 5y ago
This. I live and work in Paris proper, which is a very dense city. Transit sucks, my commute is around 45 minutes each way. Bonus points for when I have to take it in rush hour, with people pressed together and no air conditioning. Extra bonus points for the habitual breakdowns, meaning even more people per train. Also, high density with "historic city" means very small apartments and very high prices. I really don't know how much better this is compared to US-style suburbia. Oh, we don't have clean air either, all the highways and city roads are congested, too.
- benrbray 5y ago
  This is just poor planning, no? I never said it's not possible to design cities badly. Look to Tokyo for an example of density and transit working really well.
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    True, but I think that more importantly it shows that it's not "easy", since cities that work well seem to be in the minority. Plus, I'd say European cities, in particular, aren't really "designed", seeing how they have to contend with historic centers they can't touch, etc. But I think that, more importantly, we should try to avoid having to be all in the same spot if it's not necessary. Yes, there are some advantages to scale, and some things are easier / cheaper to do when you have 1M people in the same space as opposed to spread far and wide. But this also produces other issues, such as stressed people because of all the noise (not just cars, but neighbors, etc.)